AJs UTG. Comments/Suggestions on Proper Play

[MrHorace]

I played this hand the other night, and still am not sure if I could've played it differently.
Thanks for any suggestions/ideas.


Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif. UTG+1 posts a blind of $0.5.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 (poster) calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, BB calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, BB folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds.

River: (11.25 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls.

[Rev. Good Will]

reads on MP1? I mean, if he's passive/usually ABC playing, i might just check/call river... but other than that, I'm betting all those other times

looks pretty standard aside from that...but this is probably where you tell us that you got owned by Tx

[Bodhi]

I might check-call the river. As it is, it looks like MP1 slowplayed a T like most of the fishies do. Your river bet just scared him into calling because he was scared you had a flush.

Other than that, I also might play it the same way.

[swatkaizen]

I like check/call on the river better than betting out. The turn makes 3 to a straight, and the river makes 3 to a flush, or you may have always been behind to trip 10's. I would just hope MP1 checks behind.

You raised under the gun and an ace fell. You bet out. Your opponents probably put you on tptk, and MP1 still raises you on the turn (on a card that pairs your kicker!). Is that a enough to warrant check/fold on the river? I would say it depends on your reads. Against a bluffing lag, I would think c/c. Against a rock, c/f. I really don't see betting out with this. My guess is that you'll only be called by a hand that beats you.

[Bodhi]

[ QUOTE ]
Against a rock, c/f.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way. Not with T2P.

[McGahee]

[ QUOTE ]
I might check-call the river. As it is, it looks like MP1 slowplayed a T like most of the fishies do. Your river bet just scared him into calling because he was scared you had a flush.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yup

[JKDStudent]

Well I'll tell you what I would have done had I been in the hand, and then I'll say what I actually think about the hand.

What I'd have done: 3-bet turn, called a cap, check/call river. If he didn't cap, bet river. Either way, start cursing at showdown.

What I think about the hand: The problem with that turn card is not that it helped you. It's that there's no way the Jack could have helped him less than it helped you. I don't think he'd raise having just made a pair of Jacks (unless he's an idiot that sees the TT on board and screams, "Ooo, now I have two pair!", so that's out. Two pair? Only if he has the same hand as you. KQ for the straight? That would fit with the pf coldcall. JJ? Probably would have 3-bet pf, but it's still a possibility. And there's always the option of the slowplayed Ten.

There is no reason for MP1 to raise this turn unless he has you beat.

The turn call is automatic, even if you're behind, as you still have outs to the boat. But the river? Well, I definitely don't bet out. You're not getting a better hand to fold here, and there is virtually nothing that MP1 could have, let alone call you with, that you have beat. So your choices are check/call or check/fold.

I don't think there's any way you're ahead in this hand. However, it is .5/1 and you would be getting better than 12:1, so a call is probably in order. There's always the chance that he got ambitious with something or wanted to make a move on you, the pot is big, and at the very least you'll find out if he likes to slowplay flopped trips or not.

[MrHorace]

I was most unhappy, after reviewing this hand, with my bet out on the river. I was trying to represent the flush as I figured the turn raise indicated a made straight or straight draw. Why I was doing this, I'm not sure. Of course he's not going to fold unless he's absolutely certain I have him beat.

[swatkaizen]

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[ QUOTE ]
Against a rock, c/f.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way. Not with T2P.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? What hands would a rock raise the turn with in this situation? Any T, any 2 spades, KQ beat us. T2P still loses to a set, straight, and flush. All very possible on this board and the way it was played. I know this is read dependent, but remember MP1 saw him raise UTG, so MP1 must put him on a strong hand especially with this board, but he still raised the turn when a card that helped us fell so it's even less likely that the J helped him (with a pair that is). Unless you read this guy as a complete bluffer or clueless, he has something that beats us.

[aK13]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Against a rock, c/f.

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No way. Not with T2P.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? What hands would a rock raise the turn with in this situation? Any T, any 2 spades, KQ beat us. T2P still loses to a set, straight, and flush. All very possible on this board and the way it was played. I know this is read dependent, but remember MP1 saw him raise UTG, so MP1 must put him on a strong hand especially with this board, but he still raised the turn when a card that helped us fell so it's even less likely that the J helped him (with a pair that is). Unless you read this guy as a complete bluffer or clueless, he has something that beats us.

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A rock might make this play with AQ or AK, not to mention we are given ample odds to draw. (I also can't see what T a rock would call a raise with preflop, except TT).

I don't like the river donkbet. Just check/call. You want to get to showdown with this hand.

[xenthebrain]

I like it the whole way. Even the riverbet.
With the flush showing it might have scared him.

You value-bet your pretty good hand and not only allow him to value-bet when he has you beat.

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
I like it the whole way. Even the riverbet.
With the flush showing it might have scared him.

You value-bet your pretty good hand and not only allow him to value-bet when he has you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't understand this statement? sure the flush is showing, but do you expect him to be scared enough to lay down his trip tens or straight?

you keep him from value-betting when he has you beat....i don't get it? either way, you're both putting in a river bet, so i don't understand what leading out the river really accomplishes.

[xenthebrain]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like it the whole way. Even the riverbet.
With the flush showing it might have scared him.

You value-bet your pretty good hand and not only allow him to value-bet when he has you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't understand this statement? sure the flush is showing, but do you expect him to be scared enough to lay down his trip tens or straight?

you keep him from value-betting when he has you beat....i don't get it? either way, you're both putting in a river bet, so i don't understand what leading out the river really accomplishes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant he might be scared that he doesn't raise (with a T).
So if you know that he won't raise with less than a boat, betting is superior to check-calling.
You have a good hand which you should value-bet. If you check you allow him to bet when he has you beaten and check behind if he has not. So you miss a bet.

[@bsolute_luck]

i'm sorry, i still don't get it. what hand do you think he has that he raises the J/images/graemlins/spade.gif on the turn?

and what would he have on the turn worthy of a raise, but not worth betting again on the river? i guess you think he'd do this with some A-rag or paired J?