Theoretical preflop question re Q10 from BB

[TiltsMcFabulous]

Let's say you are in the BB with Q-10o at a new table full of unknowns. The table seems pretty aggressive, but solid.

UTG calls, and an MP player raises. The CO cold calls, and the SB folds. You are in the BB with Q10o, and you can expect to get about 7.5-1 on your call if the UTG player calls (and you have no particular reason to suspect a limp RR).

Do you call or fold? How clear is the decision?

Thanks for any responses.

~ Tilts

[pecto]

I call

[Net Warrior]

You've got the worst possible position and more than likely the worst hand. How are you going to make any money on this hand in the long run? I might try it if I had a read and I was up againts players I like being up against. You can make some money against these players because you get to check-raise when the flop hits you and you'll win your fair share in the long run.

I'd like to hear what others have to say.

[pokerhooker]

You call and play well post-flop, knowing you could be dominated if the action is heavy.

[TiltsMcFabulous]

Thanks for the answers. More would be much appreciated.

~ Tilts

[IndieMatty]

[ QUOTE ]
You call and play well post-flop, knowing you could be dominated if the action is heavy.

[/ QUOTE ]

question answered.

[TiltsMcFabulous]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You call and play well post-flop, knowing you could be dominated if the action is heavy.

[/ QUOTE ]

question answered.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you certain?

The guys in small stakes are just killing me for making a call just like this, and I thought it was an absolute no brainer given the tremendous odds I was getting. Obviously I'd play very cautiously unless I hit a monster, but two high straight makers from the BB getting 7.5-1 seemed like a dead easy call to me at an aggressive table. I wanted to see what the really good players thought.

This was at a 5-10 game just fyi.

~ Tilts

[surfdoc]

I think the skill levels of the players involved would have a big impact on this decision.

[TiltsMcFabulous]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the skill levels of the players involved would have a big impact on this decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't seem that good. Typical lags, though I didn't have good reads at the time of the call.

~ Tilts

[IndieMatty]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You call and play well post-flop, knowing you could be dominated if the action is heavy.

[/ QUOTE ]

question answered.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you certain?

The guys in small stakes are just killing me for making a call just like this, and I thought it was an absolute no brainer given the tremendous odds I was getting. Obviously I'd play very cautiously unless I hit a monster, but two high straight makers from the BB getting 7.5-1 seemed like a dead easy call to me at an aggressive table. I wanted to see what the really good players thought.

This was at a 5-10 game just fyi.

~ Tilts

[/ QUOTE ]


You're getting killed because some may think you come off with an attitude. Be humble when people are trying to help you.


I'll see if I can anything of substance tomorrow. But I am not a good strategy poster.

[TiltsMcFabulous]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You call and play well post-flop, knowing you could be dominated if the action is heavy.

[/ QUOTE ]

question answered.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you certain?

The guys in small stakes are just killing me for making a call just like this, and I thought it was an absolute no brainer given the tremendous odds I was getting. Obviously I'd play very cautiously unless I hit a monster, but two high straight makers from the BB getting 7.5-1 seemed like a dead easy call to me at an aggressive table. I wanted to see what the really good players thought.

This was at a 5-10 game just fyi.

~ Tilts

[/ QUOTE ]


You're getting killed because some may think you come off with an attitude. Be humble when people are trying to help you.


I'll see if I can anything of substance tomorrow. But I am not a good strategy poster.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not trying to "come off with an attitude" but it seems that simply disagreeing with people on that forum means I'm giving them attitude. Very sensitive bunch. And really, my attitude or lack thereof is totally irrelevant to whether the call is correct ot not. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

~ Tilts

[elysium]

hi tilts

since the UTG will not often have a limp reraising hand, there is never a reason to suspect that he is limp reraising. mathematically, barring an obvious tell suggesting he is going to reraise, you have to think he won't reraise. what is more important is whether or not you have good reason to strongly believe that he will call. if you were getting 12.5-1 odds, you could revert back to your current line of reasoning and go with the math barring some tell suggesting otherwise.

yes, there is room for considering the occasional UTG'er who exhibits an abnormal compulsive desire to limp reraise with many hands, and some other exotic type situations; for example, his wife may have just finally given him good news on pull made at the 250,000-1 machine, and if the news came in after his original limp-in, but before the action got to you, and he was very, very happy, and you now had strong reason to think that he was about to say, 'oh what hay, reraise everybody. let's build a pot.', well, if something like that happened, 12.5-1 would lose a little luster. i think you can fold now.

mathematically, you've got to believe he won't limp reraise. you believe this because mathematically, he won't often have a limp reraising hand. at a measley 7.5-1 though, you need to have good, strong reason to believe that he will call. at 12.5-1, you can go back to mathematical thinking, unless he's a psychopath or you think that he's about to say, 'oh what the hay...'.

[TiltsMcFabulous]

[ QUOTE ]
hi tilts

since the UTG will not often have a limp reraising hand, there is never a reason to suspect that he is limp reraising. mathematically, barring an obvious tell suggesting he is going to reraise, you have to think he won't reraise. what is more important is whether or not you have good reason to strongly believe that he will call. if you were getting 12.5-1 odds, you could revert back to your current line of reasoning and go with the math barring some tell suggesting otherwise.

yes, there is room for considering the occasional UTG'er who exhibits an abnormal compulsive desire to limp reraise with many hands, and some other exotic type situations; for example, his wife may have just finally given him good news on pull made at the 250,000-1 machine, and if the news came in after his original limp-in, but before the action got to you, and he was very, very happy, and you now had strong reason to think that he was about to say, 'oh what hay, reraise everybody. let's build a pot.', well, if something like that happened, 12.5-1 would lose a little luster. i think you can fold now.

mathematically, you've got to believe he won't limp reraise. you believe this because mathematically, he won't often have a limp reraising hand. at a measley 7.5-1 though, you need to have good, strong reason to believe that he will call. at 12.5-1, you can go back to mathematical thinking, unless he's a psychopath or you think that he's about to say, 'oh what the hay...'.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was 99.9% certain he would call. He was the only player I had a few hands on. Basically a loose passive station, and the raiser was an unknown.

Ty for the detailed response.

~ Tilts