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fnord_too
07-06-2005, 08:49 PM
This is hand 2. The only guy I have played with before isn't really involved in the hand (and I only have 95 hands on him, not that I go much by PT numbers while I play these anyway. Maybe when I get enough hands on enough people at each level...)

All comments welcome, results and my thoughts to follow.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop

UTG+2 (t1000)
MP1 (t1000)
[b]<font color="#C00000">Hero (t1000)</font>
MP3 (t740)
CO (t1000)
Button (t1550)
SB (t985)
BB (t740)
UTG (t985)
<font color="#C00000">UTG+1 (t1000)</font>

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls t15, UTG+1 calls t15, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls t15, MP3 calls t15, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t90) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets t90</font>, Hero calls t90, MP3 calls t90, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds.

Turn: (t360) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets t110</font>, Hero calls t110, MP3 calls t110.

River: (t690) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t225</font>

DJ Sensei
07-06-2005, 10:21 PM
Looks fine to me, betting villain seems very weak and will likely not call much more than that, if anything. Calling villain, on the other hand, could either have a weak pair of kings (KQ or KJ or maybe K9, he would have raised the turn with KT) or a draw (clubs are the only really reasonable draw after the flop) The only concern is that if anybody else is drawing to a flush, its most likely a Q /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif, in which case they just made the nut straight. Any other club draw will fold the river. If anybody has you beat, they'll probably push on the river. Fold to a push, but you should be doing fine here.

Sorry for the semi-coherent response, it was drunken softball night.

gumpzilla
07-06-2005, 10:35 PM
It all seems fine to me. The flop play is where I'm most conflicted. I'm thinking that I have lots of outs against what is most likely KQ-KT from UTG+1, but if I brick on the turn and UTG+1 fires out strongly again it's going to be expensive to see the river. I would consider betting 300 here, expecting that this will frequently either win the pot or get me a free river when I check behind UTG+1 on the turn, with the added bonus that he probably fires into me on the river even when I hit. Were you going for overcallers with your call?

Having gotten to the turn and river in this fashion, I play them the same. (EDIT: Actually, the river is a little complicated, too. The previous poster commented that you should fold to a river push, but I don't think you should bet this river at all if you're going to fold to a push. It is a good question what second best hands are going to call here, as I think you'll fold nothing that beats you. Your bet is small enough that I think a K can find a call here, possibly, and maybe A8 or something like that hung around.)

fnord_too
07-06-2005, 11:12 PM
The river bet is a blocking bet. I think my hand is good enough that I want to get some value out of it, and I don't want to get blown off it, but not many people will bluff raise that board, so I can get away from it if someone pushes since the blinds are still so small.

The flop is not as interesting as it could have been. My hand is strong enough that I don't mind getting all my chips in on the flop, but my stack is a bad size for trying to manoever to that end. I am definitely betting to build a pot if it is checked to me. As it was, I think calling and hoping to get a big pot when I am building to the nuts is pretty straight forward. The hand would have been a lot more interesting if I was faced with a raise or take propper odds decision. Those are always fun because you have to pick between a +EV call but getting pushed out on the turn or putting in a big raise which is also +EV.

But alas the river is the only truly interesting spot. Picking a bet size there that would get paid off but wasn't so weak it might induce an all in bluff, but wasn't so big I was pot committed. Definitely a mixed emotions river.

fnord_too
07-06-2005, 11:27 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I would consider betting 300 here, expecting that this will frequently either win the pot or get me a free river when I check behind UTG+1 on the turn, with the added bonus that he probably fires into me on the river even when I hit. Were you going for overcallers with your call?


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure if I really answered this explicitly. There are a couple of reasons I called the flop. One is that if the raiser reraises, he is pushing and I am calling for my stack quite likely as an underdog (but getting odds, so I have to). I would much rather be the pusher so I have some folding equity. Next is that, yes, with everyone behind me there is a good chance that a big pot will develop and I might hit the nuts in a nice pot without having to put much of my own stack in to build it.

gumpzilla
07-06-2005, 11:29 PM
Blockers are not something that I've really incorporated into my game. What hands do you think somebody is going to push with on the river having gotten there in this fashion? QJ is obvious, but why is QJ calling that flop action (unless we put UTG+1 on QJ)? 97 is a possibility as well, but again, I expect to see some more turn action there, since the pot is already substantial and there's zero reason to encourage a flush draw to come along. I think a set would have acted up a while ago with the flush draw and such heavy interest in the pot, so I don't take that possibility seriously. I also think AK is nearly impossible. Possibly A6 or A8. Maybe a K on a serious bluff.

So I guess while it seems unlikely that somebody might bluff raise you on this board, I also think it's unlikely that any of the hands you fear made it to this point in the hand, so I'm not sure I fold to a push here. Why not check to induce a bluff?

fnord_too
07-06-2005, 11:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
So I guess while it seems unlikely that somebody might bluff raise you on this board, I also think it's unlikely that any of the hands you fear made it to this point in the hand, so I'm not sure I fold to a push here. Why not check to induce a bluff?

[/ QUOTE ]

That is a good point (about not really having to fear the hands that beat me). I may be a little too leary here from ring game play, where stacks are deeper and sometimes people play uber tricky. One reason not to check though is that there is a real good chance of it getting checked behind now that the ultimate scare card has come.

The flop and turn bettor called with KQ and mhig.

Edit Q /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif I guess is the only legitimate fear, other than an oddly played set or 79.

Edit 2 - Yes I know I am rationalizing now /images/graemlins/smile.gif

handsome
07-06-2005, 11:47 PM
Hmmm... i think this is a fairly confusing hand. Surely it would be much different HU, but since MP3 seems to be a donk (who managed to lose 260 chips in the first hand) tagging along, it seems you are getting good value by simply calling the flop and turn bets. On the river, once in a while you'll have to lay it down to QJ of clubs but betting the river for value, I think, is an obvious +EV decision. Sucks that you're not the aggressor here but played fine.