Pocket kings and the board pairs

[bozlax]

I've only been at the table a couple of orbits. BB doesn't seem too bad, not too good. Slightly loose, pretty passive. The rest of the table is ordinary.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP3 posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP3 calls.

Is the cap too much? I'm figuring BB for top pair, marginal kicker, and everybody else caught a piece of the board and is just hanging on for dear life in what is going to be a big pot.

Turn: (13.25 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, MP3 checks, Hero ?

Oh, no. The board pairs and everybody goes underground. I can't decide whether to bet and fold to a c/r, bet and call a raise, bet and 3-bet a raise or what.

Anyone wanna jump in?

[Marquis]

If BB just filled up it doesnt make sense (not that most of what you see makes sense) for him to checkraise, so I'd probably bet.

I'm showing down this hand in all likelihood.

[Jaran]

Bet, call a raise, and call any non /images/graemlins/club.gif river. Raise if you fill up.

-Jaran

[2+2 Junkie]

I am too passive, I know that and I am working on it, but I check here. He 4 bet the flop, he could have a set that just boated. I would check, and call any river bet, assuming a club doesn't come out.

[davelin]

Bet, in some ways that's a good turn card for you.

[TomBrooks]

BET!

[AmarilloJim1]

I think pf cap is fine, and I would bet this flop.

[bozlax]

...<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP3 calls.

River: (17.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, MP3 checks, Hero ?

I bet the turn, and didn't lose anybody. Ugh.

Final board: Q/images/graemlins/club.gifT/images/graemlins/spade.gif6/images/graemlins/club.gif6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

What to do on the river? I don't want to kill one of Wookie's kittens, and I would surely call if I bet and were raised, but I also don't want to pick any puke-chunks out of my keyboard, and I feel like I'm being set up by one of these donks...er, players...so I'm REALLY inclined to check closing the action and take the free showdown.

[davelin]

I'm betting here too.

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm betting here too.

[/ QUOTE ]

[gharp]

Bet and laugh at the way you sucked out on BB's Q4 /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[bozlax]

Are you looking at the same hand we are?

[AmarilloJim1]

rofl

I meant flop cap is fine, I'd bet the turn.

I'm at work...sorry.

[DeathDonkey]

If you don't bet this river, I'll puke for you.

-DeathDonkey

[AlmightyJay]

[ QUOTE ]
I am too passive, I know that and I am working on it, but I check here. He 4 bet the flop, he could have a set that just boated. I would check, and call any river bet, assuming a club doesn't come out.

[/ QUOTE ]

You think he would play a set that strong on that flop and then start slowplaying when he fills up on the turn? Wouldn't make any sense at all.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't bet this river, I'll puke for you.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

Get your finger ready...and just try to MISS me, although I don't deserve it.

The cat died, I checked. BB showed T/images/graemlins/club.gif7/images/graemlins/club.gif for the most over played flush draw in history. UTG shows 77. MP3 shows Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif2/images/graemlins/spade.gif. MHIG, but not proud.

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
BB showed T/images/graemlins/club.gif7/images/graemlins/club.gif for the most over played flush draw in history.

[/ QUOTE ]

BB played his hand fine.

[atnels]

Most overplayed flush draw in history? If I knew the other two players were total calling stations, I'd play it the same way.

[AmarilloJim1]

Do you think it's okay for BB to 3/bet right behind hero on flop?

The rest of the field has to cold two at that point?

Despite, of course, that everyone called the 3-bets (lol)

??

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
...<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP3 calls.
River: (17.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (Final board: Q/images/graemlins/club.gifT/images/graemlins/spade.gif6/images/graemlins/club.gif6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif)<font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> BB checks, UTG checks, MP3 checks, Hero....

[/ QUOTE ]
BETS!

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think it's okay for BB to 3/bet right behind hero on flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes

[atnels]

I stated that 'if I knew the other two players were calling stations,' implying they were typical .5/1 fish who would be all-about calling two cold. Against weak-tight players who I had seen fold facing two cold, then I probably just call the raise.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BB showed T/images/graemlins/club.gif7/images/graemlins/club.gif for the most over played flush draw in history.

[/ QUOTE ]

BB played his hand fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

OOP, betting the 4th flush draw into a preflop raiser with no other draw? And then facing the field with 2 when raised by the preflop raiser? That's not a skoosh overplayed?

[MrWookie47]

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't bet this river, I'll puke for you.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't want kitten blood AND donkey vomit all over your keyboard, do you?

Edit: Your hand is just far too similar to this one (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=&amp;Number=491819&amp;page=&amp;v iew=&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=) to not cite it.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you don't bet this river, I'll puke for you.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't want kitten blood AND donkey vomit all over your keyboard, do you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I just sent my kid out on her bike to buy me a new one.

[Duerig]

I would bet this. BB looks like he is on a flush draw (3 betting the flop and checking the turn). Another possibility is that BB's 2 pair just went to hell when the board paired. If BB has a full house here, I think he would lead out.

[Duerig]

I grunch late.

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BB showed T/images/graemlins/club.gif7/images/graemlins/club.gif for the most over played flush draw in history.

[/ QUOTE ]

BB played his hand fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

OOP, betting the 4th flush draw into a preflop raiser with no other draw? And then facing the field with 2 when raised by the preflop raiser? That's not a skoosh overplayed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Flush over flush is rare so being aggressive with the T-high flush is perfectly fine. Yes sometimes you'll get 4-flushed by the river but that's rare as well.

Your comments worry me a little, especially the part about betting into the pre-flop raiser. This is a PERFECT opportunity to bet the flush draw because the pre-flop raiser will raise and trap others in-between. Perfect pot-building plan.

Making the field face two cold gives them like 2:16 odds. Most people in the middle aren't folding here.

[@bsolute_luck]

question: is the pot too big for BB to semi-bluff lead out on the turn? would/should we fold if he leads out on the turn?

i guess this might be better HU and it might depend on the players in the middle, but i am just curious.

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
question: is the pot too big for BB to semi-bluff lead out on the turn? would/should we fold if he leads out on the turn?

i guess this might be better HU and it might depend on the players in the middle, but i am just curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't lead this turn against so many, your bet isn't for value nor increasing your chances of winning.

Closing the action if I were Hero, I'd probably just call a single bet on the turn.

[bozlax]

I s'pose there's little difference, but I'd be much more inclined to play this way if I had overcards. Or one of my cards matched the board, or I had a straight draw to go with it.

But, the more I think about it, the more I see your point.

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
I s'pose there's little difference, but I'd be much more inclined to play this way if I had overcards. Or one of my cards matched the board, or I had a straight draw to go with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a big difference. You're passing up an equity edge if you're not aggressive with flush draws alone with enough opponents calling you. The situations you're talking about have a bigger equity edge but happen less frequently.

[bozlax]

Right. I meant that in this situation (with this number of players) I'd be more likely to play this hard with a stronger hand, but I should be playing both the same. Your point is that with a stronger hand you can play this hard with fewer players as well.