Not Ready- Please Jump In

[David Sklansky]

Not Ready I am absolutely fascinated by what your reaction would be to the three Jewish posters and what they say in the Why Did Jews Reject Jesus thread. I'm guessing that you have mixed emotions about these guys. On one hand they are nastier toward your beliefs than agnostics are. On the other, you must feel a sort of kinship considering that you guys have all read the same book and all of you are claiming to take it rather literally. And like you, they are citing specific passages at lenghth to justify their points. Plus they completely believe in real miracles.

I need to see this debate Not Ready. The theist-atheist debates are often too vague to get me excited. Even though I won't understand many of the specifics, I will be able to declare a winner based on general form. You can bring in BluffThis and Pair The Board on your side for a change. I make you guys a 3 1/2 to one underdog, possibly due to personal bias, but I promise to be objective when declaring a winner.

Cmon now you gotta do this for me. The guys who are taking your side now are second stringers who have no chance. We need you.

[Zygote]

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I need to see this debate Not Ready.

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Heroin fix?

[KingMarc]

"On one hand they are nastier toward your beliefs than agnostics are"

While I have no clue who NotReadyis, as one of the "three Jewish posters" I have to say that while I do not agree with his or anyone elses belief, I respect it. While a bit of a generalization, Jews for the most part are tolerant.. we haven't held Inquisitions and the like, nor have we ever persecuted other religions due to philosophical differences.

[Zygote]

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nor have we ever persecuted other religions due to philosophical differences.


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can't wait till someone accuses the jews of killing jesus.

[KingMarc]

Jews did not kill Jesus. The Second Vatican Council even said so. Let's not bring this absurd statement forward.

[David Sklansky]

"While I have no clue who NotReady is"

Do a search for his posts. I'd like to see how you would refute him from the Jewish angle. He done a pretty good job of fending off attacks from the Catholic and unbeliever angle. Let see if you fare any better.

[maurile]

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. . . while I do not agree with his or anyone elses belief, I respect it.

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"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."

-- H. L. Mencken

[kuro]

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nor have we ever persecuted other religions due to philosophical differences

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Numbers 25 NIV
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1 While Israel was staying in Shittim, the men began to indulge in sexual immorality with Moabite women, 2 who invited them to the sacrifices to their gods. The people ate and bowed down before these gods. 3 So Israel joined in worshiping the Baal of Peor. And the LORD's anger burned against them.

4 The LORD said to Moses, "Take all the leaders of these people, kill them and expose them in broad daylight before the LORD, so that the LORD's fierce anger may turn away from Israel."

5 So Moses said to Israel's judges, "Each of you must put to death those of your men who have joined in worshiping the Baal of Peor."

6 Then an Israelite man brought to his family a Midianite woman right before the eyes of Moses and the whole assembly of Israel while they were weeping at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 7 When Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, the priest, saw this, he left the assembly, took a spear in his hand 8 and followed the Israelite into the tent. He drove the spear through both of them—through the Israelite and into the woman's body. Then the plague against the Israelites was stopped; 9 but those who died in the plague numbered 24,000.

10 The LORD said to Moses, 11 "Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, the priest, has turned my anger away from the Israelites; for he was as zealous as I am for my honor among them, so that in my zeal I did not put an end to them. 12 Therefore tell him I am making my covenant of peace with him. 13 He and his descendants will have a covenant of a lasting priesthood, because he was zealous for the honor of his God and made atonement for the Israelites."

14 The name of the Israelite who was killed with the Midianite woman was Zimri son of Salu, the leader of a Simeonite family. 15 And the name of the Midianite woman who was put to death was Cozbi daughter of Zur, a tribal chief of a Midianite family.

16 The LORD said to Moses, 17 "Treat the Midianites as enemies and kill them, 18 because they treated you as enemies when they deceived you in the affair of Peor and their sister Cozbi, the daughter of a Midianite leader, the woman who was killed when the plague came as a result of Peor.

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Clearly you're mistaken.

[KingMarc]

The Jewish people have also been told to kill all the Amalakites. These situatiions were basically kill or be taken over. They were thousands of years ago and more in self defense and in order to continue to be unified. Compare this to the Inquisition where Jews were killed in a fairly civilized time for the sole reason of being different.

There have been many groups of people where the Jews have not gone and randomly decided to kill them. The situations are different, IMHO.

[The Dude]

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Even though I won't understand many of the specifics, I will be able to declare a winner based on general form.

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*shakes his head*

[Zygote]

I doubt you're going to get your much desired debate unless you provide them with an initial topic question. Just a thought...

[Peter666]

The Romans were technically responsible for the execution of Jesus, but it would obviously not have happened without the insistence of the Pharisees, whom Jesus harshly criticized.

It seems to me that people are trying to avoid the stigma of "anti-semitism" even though the New Testament is clear on the matter.

[PairTheBoard]

I don't view the bible the same way Notready does nor, from what I gather, the recent Jewish posters do. I view it as a record of the experience people have had over the ages with what they commonly call god. As such I think it shows part of the picture of the spiritual evolution and development of the human family. Evidence is abundant that reading it can facilitate profound changes in a person's spiritual life.

I consider myself to be a friend of and in basic agreement with all people of good will. However, when they create religions, based on whatever justification, which my common sense and conscience tells me is tinged with elements of ill will, I am in disagreement with their religion.

When notready and udontknowmicky teach innocent children that they are sinful and deserve to go to hell, I consider that a religion of ill will and in fact a form of child abuse.

When I read in the Bible that "god" spoke to the Hebrew Priests and told them to kill every man woman and child in the Promised land during their occupation of it, I don't believe that was really the "word of god", I don't believe it was really god speaking to those priests, and I consider the Hebrew religion at That stage of development to be one of ill will.

I debated with notready and udontknowmicky in a role of advocate for a Christian Religion that need not contain the elements of ill will they insist on, nor does it need to rely on the Supernatural. Coming out of that tradition I thought I had some abilty to do so. I know much less about the current beliefs of Judaism. However, from what I have read I believe it has continued to develop over the last 2000 years - which I applaud - and it is not at all homogeneous. Other religious Jews with different views on Judaism would be more interesting to listen to than me on that subject.

If you really want a good debate David, I suggest you get udontknowmicky involved. He seems very big on debating tactics.

PairTheBoard

[udontknowmickey]

[ QUOTE ]


Not Ready I am absolutely fascinated by what your reaction would be to the three Jewish posters and what they say in the Why Did Jews Reject Jesus thread. I'm guessing that you have mixed emotions about these guys. On one hand they are nastier toward your beliefs than agnostics are. On the other, you must feel a sort of kinship considering that you guys have all read the same book and all of you are claiming to take it rather literally. And like you, they are citing specific passages at lenghth to justify their points. Plus they completely believe in real miracles.

I need to see this debate Not Ready. The theist-atheist debates are often too vague to get me excited. Even though I won't understand many of the specifics, I will be able to declare a winner based on general form. You can bring in BluffThis and Pair The Board on your side for a change. I make you guys a 3 1/2 to one underdog, possibly due to personal bias, but I promise to be objective when declaring a winner.

Cmon now you gotta do this for me. The guys who are taking your side now are second stringers who have no chance. We need you.


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David, you rock.

[NotReady]

Just stumbled across this. I only skimmed the other thread you mentioned. I'm not that well versed in Judaism and why they reject Jesus, so I didn't feel competent to get involved.

I would like to recommend a Bible verse for your perusal, if not actual meditation:

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

[runner4life7]

Nice quote there kuro. From the other post I recall God being loving and merciful and killing people for being immoral, oh wait that last part was what one of the Jewish defenders said he didnt do, but Numbers is in the Old Testament.