Is No-Limit worth switching to at B&M?

[Toonces]

I am a limit player. I've had very good success at limit crushing the weak games, but since my local casino introduced the $200 NL game full-time, all of the crappiest and most deep-pocketed players now play strictly the NL game and games higher than 10/20 rarely even come together.

The question is, do I try to improve my NL skills to play with the fishies or play to my strengths in the limit games. My current weaknesses are card reading and my poker face, neither of which is critical in the limit games I play but far more important in NL.

[Recliner]

What casino are you playing at around Chicago?

Anyways, in my brief experience playing live NL, the plays suck. They really really suck. They'll sit there and think for a few seconds and then proceed to make the worse decision possible because they suck.

Beyond that, I would say that NL is more profitable. I don't think the key to the game is having a great poker face, but being able to get solid reads on the people at the poker table. Attack the weak/tight players and wait for the aggressive ones to give you their chips, avoid the tricky ones if you don't have position, ect. Without knowing the game I'd say that it plays like party $25NL or $50NL with the occasional better player. Having decent hand reading skills will make your life much more pleasant so I'd suggest spending some time playing online NL to work on them.

[PITTM]

key to winning at b&m low buyin, no limit games: having an ounce of common sense. if this is the case you will crush these games.

rj

[velvetdog]

I have been pondering this question myself. I am currently crushing the local B&M's 3/6 game where the fishies are plentiful. I look over to the NL tables and it appears that there are some better players there. Occasionally some of these players are at the 3/6 tables playing while waiting for seats at NL, so I can tell that they are better than the 3/6 norm. Some of these people have told me that they do much better at NL because the rake is proportionally less.

One of the magazines had an article saying that NL was the way to go - that one could average $25/hr easy at low stakes NL. I'm doing that now at 3/6 (which I know is a wild 15BB/100 win rate and a very good run).

I have decided to wait until at least the end of the year - I have heard that a new 2+2 book is coming out in the fall that addresses small stakes NL hold em. I will build my bankroll, wait for that book and study the crap out of it as I did with SSH. Then I'll dip my toe in the NL waters and go back to limit games at the first sign of a downswing.

[Groty]

True story.

This hand came up about an hour into my very first NL session:

4 guys tried limping in ahead but I was dealt pocket 10s on the button, so I raised. One of the blinds and all the limpers called. Then the mother of all flops came. The two remaining 10s and an ace with two spades. With 5 callers, I figured I'd get action from one guy playing an ace and maybe one other guy either with a small pocket pair or a flush draw. To my surprise, the first guy bet and EVERYONE called. The turn brought a spade face card. Tons of possible draws. First guy bets, a raise from a guy in middle position, only the intial bettor and I call the raise. Another face card comes on the river. First guy bets, the guy who had raised the turn mysteriously releases his hand. I naturally push all in. Initial bettor calls. He shows me two red 5s!! I was shocked, amazed, amused.

Move to no-limit.

[yellowjack]

[ QUOTE ]
I have decided to wait until at least the end of the year - I have heard that a new 2+2 book is coming out in the fall that addresses small stakes NL hold em. I will build my bankroll, wait for that book and study the crap out of it as I did with SSH. Then I'll dip my toe in the NL waters and go back to limit games at the first sign of a downswing.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, the Small Stakes PL&NL forum is sufficient to learning how to play NLHE well. Waiting for that new 2+2 NLHE to give it a try isn't worth the wait unless you want to continue to your LHE game. You're missing out on a lot of profit if this is the reason you're not at least giving it a try.

[velvetdog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have decided to wait until at least the end of the year - I have heard that a new 2+2 book is coming out in the fall that addresses small stakes NL hold em. I will build my bankroll, wait for that book and study the crap out of it as I did with SSH. Then I'll dip my toe in the NL waters and go back to limit games at the first sign of a downswing.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, the Small Stakes PL&NL forum is sufficient to learning how to play NLHE well. Waiting for that new 2+2 NLHE to give it a try isn't worth the wait unless you want to continue to your LHE game. You're missing out on a lot of profit if this is the reason you're not at least giving it a try.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the advice. I will spend some time in the Small Stakes PL&NL forum and give it a try. I just do not want to get my ass handed to me. OTOH, I do need to acquire some versatility for game selection purposes if for no other reason...

[canis582]

There are plenty of stories of NL opponents playing like donkeys. The problem with playing NL yourself is the long dry spells (depending on your style) and the potential to go on tilt.

It only takes one bad hand and your four hour winning session goes down the drain. Just make sure you think before you act, especially if all the money is going in.

Bellagio 2/5 NL from february

I tell myself I am going to win one more pot, then leave. Its been four hours and I am up $50.

After three orbits of getting raised out of marginal hands, I get delt KQ (a hand i love to overplay). So I make it $20 to go and get called in two places including from a guy who has pushed me out of a few pots.

Flop is A Q T and I bet $50 (over bet) and get called by the guy thats been bugging me.

Turn is another A and we get all our money in (my mind is racing and I am not thinking).

You can guess what he had (A 8) when we turn them over and I have 5 outs and fail to suck out, so I am going home, very pissed at myself.

[velvetdog]

I have stayed with limit poker out of fear of the exact scenario you have described. The worst that can happen on a bad bet in limit is getting raised 1 bet. I can handle getting sucked out in limit but might blow a gasket in NL. I'm disappointed with myself if I lose $80 after 4hrs of limit, or even just winning $2. I don't know if I'm mentally prepared to lose a $200 buyin plus winnings on one hand. I will have to work on this.

I am very comfortable with limit and plan to continue with it, butI think I will need to learn to beat NL in order to be a well-rounded player. I will take this cautionary tale to heart though. Thanks for sharing.

[ChicagoTroy]

Where the heck are you playing? The Resorts (formerly Harrah's) $10-20 HK plays roughly like Party's $.5-1 to $2-4 (on a bad night). The NL game has an $8/.5 hr. time charge.

If you can't beat the $10-20 there, there's something off with your live play.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
I will spend some time in the Small Stakes PL&NL forum and give it a try. I just do not want to get my ass handed to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Come join the party in SSNL. And if you get your ass handed to you at Party NL25, I will eat my computer.

[canis582]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I will spend some time in the Small Stakes PL&NL forum and give it a try. I just do not want to get my ass handed to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Come join the party in SSNL. And if you get your ass handed to you at Party NL25, I will eat my computer.

[/ QUOTE ]

I get my ass handed to myself in NL25 because it is so boring...75s UTG? What the hell...OESD? Push!

[lossage]

[ QUOTE ]
Where the heck are you playing? The Resorts (formerly Harrah's) $10-20 HK plays roughly like Party's $.5-1 to $2-4 (on a bad night).

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been seeing donktastic play at the $10/$20 games as well, when looking over longingly from my $5/$10 ghetto. I wish like hell I were bankrolled for that game.

[Toonces]

[ QUOTE ]
Where the heck are you playing? The Resorts (formerly Harrah's) $10-20 HK plays roughly like Party's $.5-1 to $2-4 (on a bad night). The NL game has an $8/.5 hr. time charge.

If you can't beat the $10-20 there, there's something off with your live play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've had good success with the Resorts 10-20 game the couple of times I played it. But i'm closest to Potowatomi. The Potowatomi 20-40 game used to be far looser than the Resorts 10-20, but the worst players eventually went bust or now play only no-limit. The 10-20 at the Pot is still good, but it's no longer the fish fry it used to be.