Problems with Dell 2001FP ebay purchase

[CourtesyFlush]

I posted about a month ago that I was having problems with an ebay seller that I purchased a Dell 2001FP from, and those problems are continuing. It is now about 40 days from the time I paid for the monitor and I have not received it. I was not getting any response from the seller at all except one email that said "oh you haven't received it yet? I will look into it don't worry man". So yesterday I filed a claim with paypal to try to get my money back and just buy from someone else. He then finally sent me an email. Here it is:

"first off man you are the one who said send it the cheapest way I did what
you asked and also I did ship it like that. I have shipped many things through usps and never had a problem. I was away
for the 4th it is a holiday here. I sent your lcd with the avail money you
sent me I dident charge extra for shipping and you file a paypal claim on
me.... I am no out my lcd and the 550 you paid for it. And you call me the
worst seller on ebay OMFG thats the pot calling the kettel black.
I am working on how to get your lcd back or to you and now you have
completly screwed me I was going to even ship another one to you at my cost
witch would tech make me out even more then this just to keep you happy but
usps said I should wait 30 days to make sure the first one will be on its
way back to me. Dont blame me blame your coustems dept as there the ones
causing this holdup.
you can either 1 cansel the paypal dispute and let me fix this (you see my
feedback and I have sold over 55 of these with good feedback the only prob I
had was when I was ill and couldent ship lastyear)
or 2 let paypal take 30+ days to not get you your money back the account is
negitive 511.00 dollars so paypal will only refund your 40 bux. I do not
want to have to do that but since you filed against me thats the only 2
options I have left as I am the one who is out the money and lcd here.
Sorry this happened I did not mean for it to
KrAwL"

Can someone tell me what he is talking about in bold? Can paypal only get you your money back if it is still in his account? The first part of his email is referring to the fact that I asked him to use UPS Ground, and he instead sent it with USPS to save himself money. So, should I believe him? Should I continue to file the claim or cancel and wait for him to resolve this mess?

CF

[CJHunt]

When I had to resind(sp?) a payment through paypal I made a 600 dollar payment but when I got the refund done the seller on ebay which i bought from only had $125 in his paypal account so I got refunded 125 dollars and he opened a new account and I got screwed out of the last 475. I think what he is saying is he has no money in his paypal account and the max refund while having nothing in an account is 40 dollars. SO I think he is just holding you hostage. Basically. At least thats my understanding of it.

I'm sure since he now knows you are looking to get a refund his account will be empty for sure so it might just be better to try and work it out with him.

And yes paypal will only take what is left in the account. At least that was the case in my 1 dealing with them.

[CourtesyFlush]

[ QUOTE ]
When I had to resind(sp?) a payment through paypal I made a 600 dollar payment but when I got the refund done the seller on ebay which i bought from only had $125 in his paypal account so I got refunded 125 dollars and he opened a new account and I got screwed out of the last 475. I think what he is saying is he has no money in his paypal account and the max refund while having nothing in an account is 40 dollars. SO I think he is just holding you hostage. Basically. At least thats my understanding of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can this be? So there is nothing protecting you from a seller who doesn't send you your item? What is stopping someone from putting up a fake auction page and pretending to ship something to you, and just withdrawing all of your money and telling you that it was lost in the mail?

[krazyace5]

Can you pm me a link to the aucton? I will have a look at it.

Actually you should post it as a warning to everyone.

[cbfair]

Has he sent you a tracking number for the shipment or any verification that it was sent? Even through USPS he should have some documentation for insurance, etc.

I assume you've passed this point but it's an obvious first move so I thought I'd mention it. If he can prove it's been sent with documents (containing his intiating adress and your recieving adress) then I'd take it up with USPS first.

From the email, the guy sounds like a total loser. I would be worried too.

cbf

[cbfair]

[ QUOTE ]

the account is negitive 511.00 dollars so paypal will only refund your 40 bux.... I am the one who is out the money and lcd here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like he's only out $40 and (maybe) a 2001FP. He's got your $510.

What a jackass.

[CourtesyFlush]

[ QUOTE ]
Has he sent you a tracking number for the shipment or any verification that it was sent? Even through USPS he should have some documentation for insurance, etc.

I assume you've passed this point but it's an obvious first move so I thought I'd mention it. If he can prove it's been sent with documents (containing his intiating adress and your recieving adress) then I'd take it up with USPS first.

From the email, the guy sounds like a total loser. I would be worried too.

cbf

[/ QUOTE ]

I have asked him for this and he has not provided it. He barely replied to any of my emails, and when he did he did not provide any of the information I asked for, or answer the questions I wanted answered. Needless to say I picked the absolute worst person to buy a monitor from.

[Jurollo]

URLs that may help:
Buyer protection policy... follow these steps (http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/isgw-buyer-protection-steps.html)

More ebay protection policies (http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/inr-snad-process.html)

[ QUOTE ]
Step 5: Closing the dispute
The buyer can close the dispute if the seller does not respond within 10 days, or anytime after the seller responds and at least 30 days have passed since the item listing closed. The buyer has two options to close the dispute:

* My concerns have been resolved–with this option, no action is taken against the seller's account and the buyer is not eligible to file a claim under eBay's Standard Purchase Protection Program. A closed dispute cannot be re-opened, so the buyer must be sure that they are entirely satisfied before they decide to close a dispute using this option. For example, if the buyer is offered a full refund by the seller, they should not close the dispute until they have received the full refund.
* I feel I have no other option but to escalate this to a claim–when the buyer selects this option, eBay's Trust and Safety team is immediately alerted about the transaction. If warranted, the seller's account may be restricted or suspended. If the buyer closes the dispute with this option and the transaction is eligible, then the buyer may file a claim under eBay's Standard Purchase Protection Program, where they may be reimbursed up to $200 (minus a $25 processing cost).Additionally, if the eBay Trust and Safety team believes further action is warranted, the seller's account may be restricted or suspended.

The buyer can close the dispute at any time if their concerns are resolved. The buyer can escalate to a claim if 30 days have passed since the transaction date and either the seller has responded at least once or has not responded with 10 days of the dispute being opened.

A dispute can only be open for 90 days after the transaction date. If the buyer has not closed the dispute within 90 days, it will be automatically closed. When a dispute is automatically closed, the seller is not reported to eBay's Trust and Safety team and the buyer is not eligible to submit a claim under eBay's Standard Purchase Protection Program.

[/ QUOTE ]

Final Steps, ebay protection policy (http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/esppp-process.html)

PayPal stuff


Paypal protection T&Cs... looks like you should be good (https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/policy_pbp)

Link to file a claim on paypal (https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_protections-buyer)

Listing itself

Actual auction (http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5201157263&rd=1&sspage name=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1)

~Justin

[TStoneMBD]

it was a big mistake purchasing from this guy in the first place. he doesnt have enough feedback and purchasing from a user like this is risky business. the guy has 5 negatives. youre an idiot if you think there isnt a chance he will rip you off.

this guy is lying to you. first of all, he cant spell for [censored]. he speaks like a 5 year old. you clearly got ripped off by some kid. dont believe what he says. try to get the money back no matter what it takes, although you are probably screwed here.

paypal might refund your money but its unlikely. when you are asking for packages to be shipped always ask that they send it with delivery confirmation as that is what i do. it costs like 35cents to add delivery confirmation to the package and it guarantees that it arrives at your doorstep. if you asked for delivery confirmation and the seller agreed and didnt send it through this method, paypal is far more likely to give you your money back and if they dont they have even worse customer service that i have thought in the past.

the seller's bold comments basically mean that you took over 30 days to file this complaint (which was stupid to begin with). paypal will be more inclined to ignore your complaint due to the stretch of time. the seller currently has $40 in his account (broke people usually are more inclined to steal) and therefore hes saying that paypal wont be able to refund your money as if they comply to your complaint he will just bail and create a new account without redepositing. however, this isnt all true. if paypal has access to bank account information i believe they have the right to EFT the money from his bank and send it to you without the sellers permission. if the guy doesnt have money in the bank then you are just screwed altogether, but at least you may be able to make it difficult for him to sell on ebay again.

[CourtesyFlush]

[ QUOTE ]
Can you pm me a link to the aucton? I will have a look at it.

Actually you should post it as a warning to everyone.


[/ QUOTE ]

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5201157263&rd=1&sspage name=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

I am kind of embarrassed to post it because the sellers feedback was pretty shaky and I know I should have been more wary. He gave me a good deal on shipping to Canada and he told me he inspected the monitor and there weren't any dead pixels at all (which was a concern), so I decided to go with him. It's partly my fault for not being more careful choosing a seller.

[cbfair]

Dude. I hate to rub it in, but you bought from krawl420??? What was your first clue he may not be a serious businessman? /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[busguy]

[ QUOTE ]
What is stopping someone from putting up a fake auction page and pretending to ship something to you, and just withdrawing all of your money and telling you that it was lost in the mail?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing.

Why anyone would buy from an e-bay seller as opposed to Dell is beyond me. The risk you take to save maybe $20-30 in no way makes up for it.

I had Dell ship mine to friend in the States and then just arranged to get it up to me from there.

Keeping your fingers crossed is about the best you can hope for at this point.

/images/graemlins/frown.gif busguy

[axioma]

you want to be buying stuff like this from 'power sellers' not some random kid.

i know you now know this now, but still...

[AsiaKurosawa]

[ QUOTE ]

or 2 let paypal take 30+ days to not get you your money back the account is
negitive 511.00 dollars so paypal will only refund your 40 bux. I do not
want to have to do that but since you filed against me thats the only 2
options I have left as I am the one who is out the money and lcd here.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry to echo the sentiment here, but you've been had. Paypal will only enter a dispute within 30 days (so, he wants you to drop the claim now, so you can't re-file it, and he gets his balance restrictions lifted.) I assume his account is negative since he had nothing in it to begin with, and now PP has placed a hold on the purchase price amount on his "balance" with your PP claim.

Unfortunately he is right though, you won't catch anything if his account is empty.

Did you use a credit-card funded paypal? Your credit card has MUCH better protection than the paypal and/or ebay buyer protections put together; your cc will eat it and wring it out of the seller/pp much more effectively than ebay and/or paypal will.

http://caag.state.ca.us/consumers/general/creditc.htm

Note: By using a credit card's chargeback feature, you may violate paypal's TOS & get your account frozen. Imo for such a large/valuable purchase, it's worth it to risk the freezing and reopen a new paypal account.

Also, I have no idea how your rights as a canadian are affected, but if you used a cc-- call your issuing bank NOW and see what they can do for you in this *fraud* case. Re-iterate fraud and your non-receipt of goods.

Also, the online auctions forum at Fatwallet (http://www.fatwallet.com/c/67/) may help with more advice as well, chockfull o advice there.

GL, sorry.

[CORed]

If paypal will only refund $40 from an empty acount, I think you're screwed. I don't think the guy has any intention of ever sending you your monitor or refunding your money. He claimed to send it USPS because UPS has a tracking number for every shipment, and if he couldn't provide you with a tracking number, you'd know he's full of [censored].

If he claims to have sent it USPS and they "lost" it, you have no way of proving he didn't send it.

In the future, I would suggest that you insist on UPS, FEDEX ground, or another carrier that tracks shipments, or no deal, even if you have to pay the shipping.

[Allinlife]

[ QUOTE ]
Dude. I hate to rub it in, but you bought from krawl420??? What was your first clue he may not be a serious businessman? /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
good point sir.

[bkholdem]

and don't buy $500 items off of random strangers over the internet

[CourtesyFlush]

[ QUOTE ]
If paypal will only refund $40 from an empty acount, I think you're screwed. I don't think the guy has any intention of ever sending you your monitor or refunding your money. He claimed to send it USPS because UPS has a tracking number for every shipment, and if he couldn't provide you with a tracking number, you'd know he's full of [censored].

If he claims to have sent it USPS and they "lost" it, you have no way of proving he didn't send it.

In the future, I would suggest that you insist on UPS, FEDEX ground, or another carrier that tracks shipments, or no deal, even if you have to pay the shipping.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I specifically asked him to use UPS Ground for shipping right after the auction ended. He did not reply to my email, he just emailed me back about 2 weeks later saying it was shipped, so I assume he went UPS Ground. I just found out when he emailed me 3-4 days ago that he went USPS "because it was cheaper".

[CourtesyFlush]

Thanks a lot for the info Asia, I will look into that.

[CourtesyFlush]

[ QUOTE ]
the seller's bold comments basically mean that you took over 30 days to file this complaint (which was stupid to begin with). paypal will be more inclined to ignore your complaint due to the stretch of time. the seller currently has $40 in his account (broke people usually are more inclined to steal) and therefore hes saying that paypal wont be able to refund your money as if they comply to your complaint he will just bail and create a new account without redepositing. however, this isnt all true. if paypal has access to bank account information i believe they have the right to EFT the money from his bank and send it to you without the sellers permission. if the guy doesnt have money in the bank then you are just screwed altogether, but at least you may be able to make it difficult for him to sell on ebay again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the info TStone...if he has a credit card linked to his paypal account can they take the funds from there or does it have to be EFT from a bank account? Also, if he bails and creates a new paypal account, does that mean he has to create a new ebay account as well?

[CourtesyFlush]

Asia, at this link:

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/policy_pbp

it gives a lot of information about the credit card chargeback process. It says that the claim will automatically be cancelled if I file a credit card chargeback. In your opinion should I attempt this while the claim is pending or wait until I know the results of the claim, and then file a chargeback if I do not get a full refund? For all I know, the seller has more than enough money in his paypal account and is just bluffing to make me cancel it.

[AsiaKurosawa]

[ QUOTE ]
Asia, at this link:

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/policy_pbp

it gives a lot of information about the credit card chargeback process. It says that the claim will automatically be cancelled if I file a credit card chargeback. In your opinion should I attempt this while the claim is pending or wait until I know the results of the claim, and then file a chargeback if I do not get a full refund? For all I know, the seller has more than enough money in his paypal account and is just bluffing to make me cancel it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm no expert /images/graemlins/smile.gif But if I were you, I would contact Paypal and ask about the status of your chargeback, and if there is any $ to be received (in the seller's account) if it does go thru. I doubt he's bluffing about not carrying a pp balance though; if he *knew* he ripped you off, it was in his best interest to remove his funds from pp and avoid freezing them there.

I don't think paypal can/will seize funds from a linked bank account and/or credit card; I think they on;y resolve $ issues with current balances. That's just my opinion though.

Take PP's answer about chargebacks w/ a grain of salt-- They discourage them b/c they are eating the cost being received, so they will discourage you using a chargeback method. Imo, pp's protections are worse than a credit card's (based on when and how much they have access to.) Your cc will initally eat the loss and then recover it, so you know they've got their interests invested in recovery-- whereas pp (afaik) only resolves disputes btw buyers/sellers and faces no monetary losses (except in chargebacks), so really has no (monetary) reason to help as your cc will.

I think most cc give 60 days, perhaps 90, for chargeback claims. In my experience (as a buyer, but nothing of the value you lost), over 30 days PP wouldn't even look @ the claim-- are you sure you filed outside of the 30 days? I'm surprised they're willing to help if it ahs been more than 30 days.

If I were you, I'd go and reg an acct over at fatwallet and ask your questions in their online auctions forum-- they deal w/ this all the time (where I learned the scant info I know), and may be able to help more and be more specific. Fwiw, most are sellers-- so don't feel bad if you get "stupid buyer!" comments, etc. They may even be able to help w. specific info about the seller too.

Or at least make the calls to paypal and your bank to know what rights you have and the timeline for them to expire (if you only have 60 days to file for your chargeback, that's coming up soon; if you have 90 you have more leeway, etc.) Also verify what stage the investigation is at and what resolution pp can offer you, it'd be a shame to wait out for their claim only to hear that you waited too long to file, there actually is no $ recovery possible, etc. If you know you only have 60 days to file, and if that's coming up, I'd totally do the cc chargeback if it were available to me-- esp. since I've never heard of pp taking up a claim that was filed outside of 30 days.

ebay also has their own buyer protection, have you looked to see if it can help you out?

GL, hope it works out.