$109s - JJ Postflop

[Unarmed]

Pretty typical spot. No reads. BB built his stack off huge hands (AA once and QQ the other time, payed them fast both times)

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

CO (t1100)
Hero (t1145)
SB (t1765)
BB (t2870)
UTG (t1525)
MP1 (t795)
MP2 (t800)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t125</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls t75.

Flop: (t275) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets t50</font>

[The Yugoslavian]

How has he 2.8xUp?

I guess a standard stab would be t375....I don't mind betting somewhat less (t250?) if it allows this opponent to play hands you're quite a bit ahead of (88-TT,A7)...

Yugoslav

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
How has he 2.8xUp?

I guess a standard stab would be t375....I don't mind betting somewhat less (t250?) if it allows this opponent to play hands you're quite a bit ahead of (88-TT,A7)...

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with your pot raise, and your suggestion for something smaller would probably only be good if you had a nice read on the guy. This is because alot of cards are going to confuse you, and if the guy gets tricky (I guess somewhat rare) you'll be a little lost. I just don't think this a great spot to squeeze out value. I make the full raise and just try and end this bad boy, it looks like you're ahead and he wants to see a turn. I wouldn't put another chip in the pot though.

[Phoenix1010]

A pot sized raise is far too much.

-Phoenix

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
A pot sized raise is far too much.

-Phoenix

[/ QUOTE ]

More please.

Yugoslav
Who does actually agree with you.

[Phoenix1010]

Seems pretty clear. A full pot raise is about 35 percent of your stack, putting that much in the pot basically chains an anchor to your leg, and it's not like you're in a great spot here. Moreover, the raise is so large in comparison to the bet that you will almost always only get action from hands that are beating you and fold everything else. Betting 250-300 makes him fold dry overcards, call with top pair/middle overpairs and possibly try to peel one off on a flush draw, all while allowing you to get away from the pot if you figure out that you're behind.

-Phoenix

Edit: put simply: why commit yourself to a marginal spot when you can accomplish all of the same things (and perhaps more) with a smaller bet?

[freemoney]

i think this hand becomes increasingly difficult on each street, i much prefer basically calling here then a raise that has little chance to get BB to fold, i am willing to go broke on this flop, not finding out when i should fold it.

[Phoenix1010]

What do you do when one of the 18 scare cards falls on the turn and he fires a bigger shot? Are you calling down?

-Phoenix

[DonButtons]

I'd make it 175-225, seems like a weak attempt at a blocking/value bet.

[freemoney]

but the whole idea is a small raise does not accomplish anything but bloat a small pot without really getting any information whatsoever other then that he still has 2 cards, thats why i hate a small raise here.

[adanthar]

To break these minbets down:
-When you raise to 250 and he pushes, it's often (but not always) a set
-When you raise to 250 and he calls, it's a flush draw
-When you raise to 250, he'll fold with nothing 90% of the time

Continue from there.

[freemoney]

i dont like this direct line of thinking due to villians stack, if he is a thinking player he can very very easily semibluff a worse hand, no matter how bad hand goes for villian he will have 1800 after it is over, i am not saying raising to 250 is bad but i just think villian can get tricky here or push a weaker hand much more often b/c of stack.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
if he is a thinking player

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets t50</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

He's not, trust me.

[freemoney]

i mean fair enough most players at the 109s arent too much but i have real trouble ever folding this flop here.

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
To break these minbets down:
-When you raise to 250 and he pushes, it's often (but not always) a set
-When you raise to 250 and he calls, it's a flush draw
-When you raise to 250, he'll fold with nothing 90% of the time

Continue from there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats helpful. Thanks adanthar.

I actually called the 50 because I didn't want to get semi-bluffed off the best hand, and I wanted to use my position to control Villain. A king dropped on the turn, he potted it, and I bailed. I'm stilll not sure what he had, (if it was me I'd have exactly AK /images/graemlins/heart.gif) but with the K on the turn its pretty likely that a PF raiser would have hit whatever he raised with. If he's good enough to sense weakness and pot his draw, I lose.

I still don't like how I played it, but I'm not sure how horrible it is. Yes I can't give a free card on the flop, but I wasn't really comfortable re-opening the betting again either.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
To break these minbets down:
-When you raise to 250 and he pushes, it's often (but not always) a set
-When you raise to 250 and he calls, it's a flush draw


[/ QUOTE ]

Given how low the board is, I think he'll be pushing with a flush draw here more often than not, since he's very likely to have a flush draw and overcards to the board and thus view himself as having a million outs.

[adanthar]

I'm not arguing whether that's the right play, I'm arguing that people who minbet into the PFR in the 109's are predictable donks /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Newt_Buggs]

I haven't played many $109s yet, but on the $55s I am always raising this and usually calling his push if he comes over the top. I wouldn't be surprised to see A7 or 99 come over the top.

[good2cu]

Yea I agree with Newt. I think if you are check-raised here in a 50+5, you are againest A7, 78, flush draw, smaller overpair or a bluff 80% time, I insta-call,and I don't believe the 200s are too differnt. (He is not mini-betting with a hand that's ahead of you either).