OPS and OPS Against

[andyfox]

Since OPS is generally regarded as the most reliable statistic to assess batting proficiency, shouldn't OPS against be the statistic for pitching efficiency?

FWIW, here are the top 3 starting pitchers in terms of OPS against this year:
Clemens: .498
Pedro: .514
Halliday: .568

And for relievers:
Rivera: .413
Politte: .414
Guardado: .512

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
Since OPS is generally regarded as the most reliable statistic to assess batting proficiency, shouldn't OPS against be the statistic for pitching efficiency?

[/ QUOTE ]

Too defense/park dependant. You're better off looking at someone's K/BB ratio, IMO.

[The Armchair]

[ QUOTE ]
Since OPS is generally regarded as the most reliable statistic to assess batting proficiency, shouldn't OPS against be the statistic for pitching efficiency?

FWIW, here are the top 3 starting pitchers in terms of OPS against this year:
Clemens: .498
Pedro: .514
Halliday: .568

And for relievers:
Rivera: .413
Politte: .414
Guardado: .512

[/ QUOTE ]

As the poster above noted, OPS is very defense dependent.

A good rule of thumb is some mix of BB, HR, and Ks (with the former counted against the pitcher) in relation to IP. Those are the only three events for which defense is irrelevant (well, nearly irrelevant).

[UMTerp]

I'm pretty sure the DIPS metric (something those sabermetricians devised fairly recently) relies heavily on those three stats you mentioned. It's supposedly a pretty reliable way to rate pitchers.

Leaders among qualified starters this season:

1 Pedro Martinez NYM 2.65
2 Dontrelle Willis Fla 2.71
3 Roger Clemens Hou 2.77
4 Jake Peavy SD 2.77
5 Chris Carpenter StL 2.85
6 Johan Santana Min 2.86
7 Roy Halladay Tor 3.06
8 Mark Buehrle CWS 3.10
9 John Smoltz Atl 3.15
10 Andy Pettitte Hou 3.18

[The Armchair]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure the DIPS metric (something those sabermetricians devised fairly recently) relies heavily on those three stats you mentioned. It's supposedly a pretty reliable way to rate pitchers.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I was referring to, but figured I'd ungeek it.

Can you give me a link for that data? I couldn't find it last night.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure the DIPS metric (something those sabermetricians devised fairly recently) relies heavily on those three stats you mentioned. It's supposedly a pretty reliable way to rate pitchers.

Leaders among qualified starters this season:

1 Pedro Martinez NYM 2.65
2 Dontrelle Willis Fla 2.71
3 Roger Clemens Hou 2.77
4 Jake Peavy SD 2.77
5 Chris Carpenter StL 2.85
6 Johan Santana Min 2.86
7 Roy Halladay Tor 3.06
8 Mark Buehrle CWS 3.10
9 John Smoltz Atl 3.15
10 Andy Pettitte Hou 3.18

[/ QUOTE ]


Seeing two former Yankees on that list really makes me want to puke.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure the DIPS metric (something those sabermetricians devised fairly recently) relies heavily on those three stats you mentioned. It's supposedly a pretty reliable way to rate pitchers.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I was referring to, but figured I'd ungeek it.

Can you give me a link for that data? I couldn't find it last night.

[/ QUOTE ]

ESPN Pitching Stats, click on the Sab. link.

[andyfox]

We could adjust for park effect, just like we with hitters. We could also adjust for defense, using, say, James's defensive Win Shares formula.

[andyfox]

Well, there are two former Red Sox higher up on the list. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
We could adjust for park effect, just like we with hitters. We could also adjust for defense, using, say, James's defensive Win Shares formula.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, but park adjustments are a pain, and OPS isn't the best metric in the world.

The only way to really adjust for defense is the remove it completely from the equation with DIPS or FIP.

[RacersEdge]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure the DIPS metric (something those sabermetricians devised fairly recently) relies heavily on those three stats you mentioned. It's supposedly a pretty reliable way to rate pitchers.

Leaders among qualified starters this season:

1 Pedro Martinez NYM 2.65
2 Dontrelle Willis Fla 2.71
3 Roger Clemens Hou 2.77
4 Jake Peavy SD 2.77
5 Chris Carpenter StL 2.85
6 Johan Santana Min 2.86
7 Roy Halladay Tor 3.06
8 Mark Buehrle CWS 3.10
9 John Smoltz Atl 3.15
10 Andy Pettitte Hou 3.18

[/ QUOTE ]

And these are all park and league adjusted?

[andyfox]

.