3/6 Running Me OVER, Am I terrible or unlucky?

[adam61]

I hate making posts before I have a big number of hands, but I have a fear if I don't make some adjustments, there won't be any money left to play the rest of the hands with. I've played about 4,000 hands over the last week and just been run over especially last 2 days. The swings are huge (I can live with this if I'm pretty confident I'm a winner), the bad beats are INSANE (which is great in theory means people are making bad calls) but I've seen more bad beats in 7 days than I've seen in the last year in 2/4 and 3/6. I have the bankroll to continue despite my huge 150BB+ loss the last 2 days. I just want to see if I'm making huge mistakes, I'll make a more detailed post when/if I have a lot of hands. I know this is similar to the other post made about the same basic thing, but my stats are completely different. Basically my main problem is coping with the terrible play, on the river at 2/4 3/6 I could tell you almost exactly what my opponent was going to turn over, at 3/6 6max in a $141 pot it could be won by K high or a straight flush, I have NO idea. I know these are the type of players I want to play and bad beats come with the territory, but I'm sure I AM MAKING MISTAKES that are costing me money, not just the bad beats. Thoughts?

(Yes I know sample size is too small, but as stated before, I've NEVER played 6-max before and want to see if I'm making huge aggregous errors that appear in the stats within 1-5k hands)

The swings make me sick, but that I'll get used to, I just want some reassurance I'm playing well enough that there's eventually gonna be a 200BB upswing to offset the huge downswing you know!

http://www.adamthomas.org/tracker07.JPG

http://www.adamthomas.org/grapher07.JPG

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
I've NEVER played 6-max before . . .

[/ QUOTE ]

This is really starting to get tedious. Start at the 1/2. What, you think you're special, you can just play the exact same limit you did at full-ring and crush it with the same ABC nonsense?

[Entity]

You sound like a player who is playing more than 1 or 2 tables, especially if you've managed 4k hands in the last week. How many are you playing?

Rob

[JDErickson]

Adam,
You are going to get a lot of angry responses here as these type of posts happene about twice a day. Read a few pages down and see what others have found out.

Your sample size is way too small. Variance is huge at 6 max games.

One thing I have noticed in 3/6 6 max is that hands are usually 3-5 handed (or at least alot ore often than 5/10 6 max). You have to sdjust your playing to this fact. Tighten up a bit and watch your agression levels that you aren't being to agressive for your particular table.

[Fiddler]

I agree with Grisgra. The games are different from full ring and you can't expect to jump in and "get it" at once.

From your screenhots though I think I can say that you are much too loose (and call down to often), especially when you haven't played 6-max before and most likely even if you have. I'm pretty sure there are only a couple of forum regulars with a VP$IP around the 30% mark. So I think your VP$IP could drop by 10% as you learn and then you can add more hands as you improve. And am I the only one that thinks that the VP$IP from SB (38%) is insanely high? 3/6 at Party has a 1/3 blind structure... surely that can't be profitable.

Why not drop down to 1/2 (or 2/4 at Stars) for 10k hands or something while you iron out the major stuff and get used to things? And don't multi-table for those 10k hands.

[twankerr]

Playing 30vpip and 20pfr will not be easy for someone who never played 6-max before. it takes the best 6maxers here to win with those pre-flop stats

[BabyJesus]

Looks like you're taking the 'loosen up for shorthanded' a bit too far. Tighten up some, learn the basics of shorthanded first before you add more hands to your arsenal.

Short handed really perfects your postflop play, were you a good postflop player at 3/6 and 2/4? Or were you just able to beat the game because you played less hands than other people?

[sy_or_bust]

[ QUOTE ]
Playing 30vpip and 20pfr will not be easy for someone who never played 6-max before.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Without experience, this style tends to run super streaky (as your graph shows). I'd recommend tightening up to 22-26 VP$IP and 15-17 PFR, and spending a few thousand hands (at least) in 1/2 6 max.

[Poldi]

You play too many hands, VPIP should be more like 21% when you are starting out. And dont start at 3/6..

[adam61]

Thanks for the replies. Just as responses to a couple, yea I loosened up because I play 19% or so at 3/6 so I assumed playing 28-29% made sense for 6 max. If I'm moving from 19% to 21% or so I'm pretty much just playing my exact same 3/6 game but stealing a little more I guess? I started at 3/6 I guess because I'd been comfortable at 3/6 full and because the play was so unbelievably bad I figured I was at least .5BB or so while I learned, if not more. I guess I could do 1/2 for a while, but I didn't know how it would be, 1/2 full doesn't do much to prepare you for 2/4 at party, they are basically totally different games in my eyes. I figured the difference in 1/2 and 3/6 6max would be so different they aren't a great parrellel to eachother. What do you think? Bankroll wise I have about $4500 and if I lose it I'm done so it's important I keep it, but you think there's a lot to gain at 1/2 even though 3/6 has it's share of superfish? Also I was playing 4 when I started, then 3, then when I started to lose a bit I dropped down to 2 to focus, and of course that's when I lose $1000, dunno if that's bad luck or me getting fancier when I have less to do.

I know you have to be a little more low on the tables as you learn, but if I had to play 10,000 hands at 1/2 single table, I may as well move back to 3/6, it'll take me 2-3 months to play that volume of hands, and going with low low income for that period would be pretty tough. I been pulling $1000 a month or so in, playing my 15 hours a week, so I'm willing to put the effort into learning, but I don't wanna zero out my income for a quarter. Obviously at 3/6 I could lose money and really be in for it though, so there's merit both directions.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
Also I was playing 4 when I started . . .

[/ QUOTE ]

I blame our public school system.

Two tables. Party 1/2 or Paradise 1/2. Until you have 5k hands beating it for at least 2.5BB/100, preferably 3BB/100. Now shoo.

[adam61]

Alright I'm sitting on 2 party 1/2 kiddie tables for a few thousand like a good boy. Any other tips for a 6max newb? /images/graemlins/smile.gif Except study

[pshabi]

1/2? No. Don't do that.

You don't have to be a "Party Dude" like everyone else.

UB, PR, InterPoker all spread games at 2/4 if you have to move down.

Pokerstars too (no rb though).

I do better shorthanded than I did full and I went straight to 3/6 from 3/6 full.

[ChicagoTroy]

[ QUOTE ]
I blame our public school system.

[/ QUOTE ]

Big LOL here.

Adam, this game is clowny enough that it will be here in a few weeks when you get a handle on $1-2.

But it's completely different from $3-6 full, there is no correllation whatsoever. If you are confused about where you are in a hand as often as you describe, it's a good idea to play the uber-clowns at $1-2, post the confusing hands, and then move up. You could drop enough in the $3-6 SH game to screw you up. I'm seeing a lot of "TAGs" that are folding in strange places and not extracting value for their good hands. Good stuff if you aren't one of them.

[giddyup]

How do you pull up the graph option in poker tracker? i would really love to see my ups and downs plotted on a graph. thanks.

[adam61]

It's called PokerGrapher it's a seperate program that will graph off of pokertracker. It's a dead project, and I don't have the link on me to the program, but it still works and it's hosted a couple of sites.

[giddyup]

thanks a lot man - very helpful.

[Petomane]

A drop of 150bb is not unusual in shorthanded.
It's insanity to start playing 6max at 3/6. If you don't get the hang of it at 1/2, you might not have an income at all.

[redbeard]

I agree on both fronts my vpip is maybe too tight, but is at 17%. My vpip from sb is 21%. So tighten up a bit and really focus on your heads up play. I know that there are a lot more limpers in 3/6 than 5/10, but you should be able to draw on your full game experience to adjust to this. But an easier way to limit the game is by raising more preflop. My preflop raise is 14%. What does everyone think the appropriate numbers should be for 3/6 in terms of vpip, vpip from sb, and pfr?