What happened the day before the universe was created?

[Your Mom]

Discuss

[PairTheBoard]

I'm not sure there was such a thing.

PairTheBoard

[MoreWineII]

Keg Party to celebrate the upcoming creation of the universe.

[jason1990]

Two Branes approached each other, readying for a collision. (Or so I saw on Nova.)

[spoohunter]

[ QUOTE ]
What happened the day before the universe was created?

[/ QUOTE ]

The universe, the one that is about to be created, ended.

Discuss.

[Your Mom]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure there was such a thing.

PairTheBoard

[/ QUOTE ]

But doesn't there have to be? This question really makes me think.

[spoohunter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure there was such a thing.

PairTheBoard

[/ QUOTE ]

But doesn't there have to be? This question really makes me think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another option :
Time began when the universe began. There was no "day" or "time" before the universe began.

[Your Mom]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What happened the day before the universe was created?

[/ QUOTE ]

The universe, the one that is about to be created, ended.

Discuss.

[/ QUOTE ]

So it's all one big ctcle? Is this a one time thing or does this continually happen? How many times has it happened before?

[Your Mom]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure there was such a thing.

PairTheBoard

[/ QUOTE ]

But doesn't there have to be? This question really makes me think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another option :
Time began when the universe began. There was no "day" or "time" before the universe began.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, so what made the universe begin?

[Bodhi]

Nothing. Don't impose your everyday notion of cause and effect on cosmology.

[Bodhi]

No, there doesn't have to be. Why must there be? You have premises that you don't even recognize as premises.

[spoohunter]

It happens only once, in it's entirety, but in that entirety(not neccessarily a word, or a properly spelled one anyway) it happens an infinite amount of times.

[pc in NM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure there was such a thing.

PairTheBoard

[/ QUOTE ]

But doesn't there have to be? This question really makes me think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you assuming that there can be "time" without "space"? More concretely, doesn't a "day" require an earth and a sun??

[Bodhi]

We don't know. Maybe nothing at all. And nothing causing the universe is not illogical.

[spoohunter]

Everything in our everyday lives points to cause and effect. We are born and we die. Our compturers are made, wear out, and break down. Everything we observe uses cause and effect, but it is clear that not everything must follow this pattern. After all, this has to be one "First Cause", which doesn't really make sense to me so I think of it as something that "just always has been and always will be".

Here's something that might soothe your cognitive dissodance. No complete system is consistent. No consistent system is complete. Wrap your mind around that.

[Your Mom]

I guess I use this question to support my theory that science can't solve everything which makes God and/or religion a possibility. I'm sure you guys who are smarter than me will punch a lot of wholes in my idea.

[Your Mom]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure there was such a thing.

PairTheBoard

[/ QUOTE ]

But doesn't there have to be? This question really makes me think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you assuming that there can be "time" without "space"? More concretely, doesn't a "day" require an earth and a sun??

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe instead of "day" I should have used "moment"

[spoohunter]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I use this question to support my theory that science can't solve everything which makes God and/or religion a possibility. I'm sure you guys who are smarter than me will punch a lot of wholes in my idea.

[/ QUOTE ]


Meh, the problem with this argument is that you can ask the same question about God.

[David Steele]

You only think you are asking a question in the same way as if you had asked "How much does red weigh?"

D.

[Bodhi]

Science can solve everything for which there is an answer. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Your question has no meaningful answer, hence our disregard for it. Take your philosophical premise that every event has a reason or cause sufficient to explain it, and give it a long, hard look.

[mmbt0ne]

God lit a firework

[Your Mom]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I use this question to support my theory that science can't solve everything which makes God and/or religion a possibility. I'm sure you guys who are smarter than me will punch a lot of wholes in my idea.

[/ QUOTE ]


Meh, the problem with this argument is that you can ask the same question about God.

[/ QUOTE ]

If there is a God, then I don't need to worry about logic.

[Your Mom]

[ QUOTE ]
Science can solve everything for which there is an answer. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Your question has no meaningful answer, hence our disregard for it. Take your philosophical premise that every event has a reason or cause sufficient to explain it, and give it a long, hard look.

[/ QUOTE ]

My point is that if science can't answer this, then there are probably lots of other things it can't answer i.e. God and Religion.

[Your Mom]

[ QUOTE ]
Take your philosophical premise that every event has a reason or cause sufficient to explain it, and give it a long, hard look.

[/ QUOTE ]

This premise is not my belief. I'm playing devil's advocate.

[BruceZ]

[ QUOTE ]
Two Branes approached each other, readying for a collision. (Or so I saw on Nova.)

[/ QUOTE ]

That's right, and it happens all the time. Universes popping into and out of existence like soap bubbles, it's no big deal. You could make your own in your office. They don't take up any space since they make their own space and time.

[fluff]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I use this question to support my theory that science can't solve everything which makes God and/or religion a possibility. I'm sure you guys who are smarter than me will punch a lot of wholes in my idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

What happened the day before God was created?

[Your Mom]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I use this question to support my theory that science can't solve everything which makes God and/or religion a possibility. I'm sure you guys who are smarter than me will punch a lot of wholes in my idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

What happened the day before God was created?

[/ QUOTE ]

Once you believe that God exists, you don't have to worry about questions like this. It's beyond our capabilities as humans to answer questions like this.

[Raydain]

[ QUOTE ]
Once you believe that God exists, you don't have to worry about questions like this. It's beyond our capabilities as humans to answer questions like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Makes everything really simple if you can answer every question with this.

[maurile]

What is located two miles north of the North Pole?

[Your Mom]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Once you believe that God exists, you don't have to worry about questions like this. It's beyond our capabilities as humans to answer questions like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Makes everything really simple if you can answer every question with this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not answering every question with this. I'm just saying if you admit that you can't answer the question of what happened the day before the universe was created, then you can't really say that there isn't a God, because science cannot handle either question.

[drudman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Once you believe that God exists, you don't have to worry about questions like this. It's beyond our capabilities as humans to answer questions like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Makes everything really simple if you can answer every question with this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not answering every question with this. I'm just saying if you admit that you can't answer the question of what happened the day before the universe was created, then you can't really say that there isn't a God, because science cannot handle either question.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is your point that atheism is irrational? If so, congratulations, you are now the one millionth person to point it out in this forum.

Sheesh.

[Your Mom]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Once you believe that God exists, you don't have to worry about questions like this. It's beyond our capabilities as humans to answer questions like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Makes everything really simple if you can answer every question with this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not answering every question with this. I'm just saying if you admit that you can't answer the question of what happened the day before the universe was created, then you can't really say that there isn't a God, because science cannot handle either question.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is your point that atheism is irrational? If so, congratulations, you are now the one millionth person to point it out in this forum.

Sheesh.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, my point is that humans do not have the capability to answer any of these type of questions with any certainty so anyone who puts down someone's religious beliefs boggles my mind.

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
No, my point is that humans do not have the capability to answer any of these type of questions with any certainty so anyone who puts down someone's religious beliefs boggles my mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are many other reasons to question the validity of religion beyond whether one can conclusively prove god does not exist. 100% proof of god is seemingly impossible, but that does not mean non-believers cannot point out all of the flaws believers make in assuming that he does exist.

[maurile]

[ QUOTE ]
No, my point is that humans do not have the capability to answer any of these type of questions with any certainty so anyone who puts down someone's religious beliefs boggles my mind.

[/ QUOTE ]
But what if somebody's religious beliefs are stupid? I don't mean Christianity, obviously. But what about those foreign religions, like Islam or Hinduism? Surely most Christians would attest to the fact that those other non-American religions are just silly.

[brassnuts]

A whole lot of nothing.

Or.

God was carbing up for the big week ahead of him.

[Bodhi]

Yeah, that is really an atrocious cop-out. You insist on asking the unanswerable up to a certain point, but then stop at an imaginary line.

[BadBoyBenny]

[ QUOTE ]
But what if somebody's religious beliefs are stupid? I don't mean Christianity, obviously. But what about those foreign religions, like Islam or Hinduism? Surely most Christians would attest to the fact that those other non-American religions are just silly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Condescension and sarcasm will win them over every time.

Most of the Christians I know do not think these people have silly beliefs.

[Your Mom]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No, my point is that humans do not have the capability to answer any of these type of questions with any certainty so anyone who puts down someone's religious beliefs boggles my mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are many other reasons to question the validity of religion beyond whether one can conclusively prove god does not exist. 100% proof of god is seemingly impossible, but that does not mean non-believers cannot point out all of the flaws believers make in assuming that he does exist.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, I have no problem with debate. I have a problem with someone telling me I am silly or I boggle their mind beacuse I am religious.

[Your Mom]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, that is really an atrocious cop-out. You insist on asking the unanswerable up to a certain point, but then stop at an imaginary line.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not trying to avoid the question, I just don't think the question is answerable. If someone has an answer, I would love to hear it, but based on the first ten posts of this thread, it didn't seem like anyone did.

[Your Mom]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No, my point is that humans do not have the capability to answer any of these type of questions with any certainty so anyone who puts down someone's religious beliefs boggles my mind.

[/ QUOTE ]
But what if somebody's religious beliefs are stupid? I don't mean Christianity, obviously. But what about those foreign religions, like Islam or Hinduism? Surely most Christians would attest to the fact that those other non-American religions are just silly.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I don't think they are silly. I've studied the major religions a little bit and I didn't find any of them silly. Admittedly, I haven't studied the lesser known religions. Scientology (of what I know about it, which is very little), I find silly, but I haven't found any of the others silly.

[Bodhi]

[ QUOTE ]
Once you believe that God exists, you don't have to worry about questions like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you think the question of god's existence is answerable? Explain. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Your Mom]

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[ QUOTE ]
Once you believe that God exists, you don't have to worry about questions like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you think the question of god's existence is answerable? Explain. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I don't think its answerable, but I think it is reasonable to believe in God.

[David Sklansky]

"Most of the Christians I know do not think these people have silly beliefs."

That's because you are defining "silly" to be non serious. But if you define "silly" to mean "pretty obviously not true" then Christians must take this position if they are do declare their beliefs pretty obviously true.

[jason1990]

[ QUOTE ]
You could make your own in your office.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm still laughing about this line. Nice post.

[snowden719]

I'm pretty sure that the question what happened the day before the universe was created is not a well formed question, similar to how high is up, or where are numbers located.

[BadBoyBenny]

I assumed that whenMaurile used the word silly he was implying that they would not be worthy of debate. I don't think this is hte case for most Christians I know. If this was a bad assumption then I owe an apology for being snippy.

[Your Mom]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure that the question what happened the day before the universe was created is not a well formed question, similar to how high is up, or where are numbers located.

[/ QUOTE ]

why?

[usmhot]

What a lot of the posters are saying is that science has already answered the question and the answer is that the question is meaningless. 'Time' only came into existence at the singularity point of the big bang - or in layman's terms when the Universe came into existence. There is no such thing as 'before' this.

As to the question of 'God', you'll find that science's official answer to that is it is an imaginary creation of the human mind.

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
What happened the day before the universe was created?

[/ QUOTE ]

What happened 50 kilometres before the 100-metre starting line?

Does it affect what happened in the 100-metre dash?? Does it exist at all, as far as the 100-metre dash is concerned?

[CallYNotRaise06]

[ QUOTE ]
Another option :
Time began when the universe began. There was no "day" or "time" before the universe began.

[/ QUOTE ]

Time was a man made thing. think about it. there really is no such thing as time.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
Once you believe that God exists, you don't have to worry about questions like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you think the question of god's existence is answerable? Explain. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I don't think its answerable, but I think it is reasonable to believe in God.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't your point that science cannot answer every question therefore its reasonable to believe that its possible that there is a god.

How to you get from there to it being reasonable to believe there is a god or do you think they are the same thing?

chez

[IronUnkind]

[ QUOTE ]
As to the question of 'God', you'll find that science's official answer to that is it is an imaginary creation of the human mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is this? Incisive or pithy?

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
Time was a man made thing. think about it. there really is no such thing as time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Too much weed. Not enough physics.

[tolbiny]

If there is a god, all signs point to him/her/it creating the universe based upon logic.

[tolbiny]

Existance, by definition, is. Always has been, always will be (in some form or another). In any scientific study/experiemnt you have to accept certain premises, and allow for the idea that your observations alter the outcome. To study the universe you first have to accept the premise that it exists. There is no evidence that the universe (as in energy in its forms obeying certain laws) has not always existed- and the question of what came before can (from some viewpoints) be considered moot.

[tolbiny]

Because you don't define the parameters of your question to begin with.

What is the definition of the universe, and when did it begin? Being two key components.

[Lestat]

<font color="red"> As to the question of 'God', you'll find that science's official answer to that is it is an imaginary creation of the human mind. </font> \

I don't think this is true. There are many scientists who believe in God. In fact, it is more likely that for the day to arrive which proves God does exist, than for the day to come which proves God cannot exist.

[sexypanda]

[ QUOTE ]
In fact, it is more likely that for the day to arrive which proves God does exist, than for the day to come which proves God cannot exist.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you figure?

[drudman]

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="red"> As to the question of 'God', you'll find that science's official answer to that is it is an imaginary creation of the human mind. </font> \

I don't think this is true. There are many scientists who believe in God. In fact, it is more likely that for the day to arrive which proves God does exist, than for the day to come which proves God cannot exist.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your point is wrought with logical mistakes, but for the sake of argument, I will disregard them.

Your statement says nothing about God, or the nature of God. It in fact, is an analytic truth. For instance, say we were interested in determining whether or not there existed any non-black ravens. It is more likely that one could prove that one did exist, simply because one would only need to encounter one non-black raven to do so. On the other hand, one would need to encounter every single raven in the universe in order to show that there are none that are non-black.

So what you say is true, but is misleading, because it does not in fact say anything meaningful.

[David Sklansky]

"In fact, it is more likely that for the day to arrive which proves God does exist, than for the day to come which proves God cannot exist."

Basically true of course. Do you see why?

[sexypanda]

[ QUOTE ]
"In fact, it is more likely that for the day to arrive which proves God does exist, than for the day to come which proves God cannot exist."

Basically true of course. Do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well yea, it's obviously easier to prove the existence of something than the non-existence of something. If that was the original posters point though, it really holds no weight. In that case, he could replace "god" with "unicorns" or "bigfoot". I thought he was privy to some information that I wasn't aware of.

[usmhot]

Indeed many scientists do believe in God, but most of them would say that their believe has nothing to do with their profession. In fact, many would say that maintaining that believe is a daily challenge.

And, of course, the scientific method is to accept the possibility of any posited theory until it is disproved. So, naturally, in the absence of proof any 'good' scientist will accept that its possible that God exists.
However, scientists (or indeed anyone sane) wouldn't really believe that there are leprechauns who just happen to be very good at keeping themselves hidden just because one can't disprove it. Scientists must make pragmatic choices about which theories to take seriously - and these choices tend to be based on things like evidence in favor of the theory and how well it fits with other theories. At the moment, there is just about no _scientific_ evidence for the existence of God, and all of the accepted theories of how the Universe works point away from his/her existence, so the official line is more like

'It seems unlikely that God (or similar) exists, even though it can't be disproved. And it seems far more likely that the human condition (towit mortality and self-awareness) has created 'God-myths' to ally our deepest fears'

But to go back to the original point of the thread - the question about what happened before the Universe began was posed with the aim of pointing out that if science cannot answer this question then God must exist because science cannot answer the 'God question' either. However, this reasoning is flawed in two respects -
1. A lack of answer for any one question has absolutely no bearing on other 'unanswerable' questions.
2. Science has indeed answered the question of 'before the Universe began' - the answer being 'there is no such thing'.