Playing middle pair.

[baronzeus]

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.33 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.16 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (5.16 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.16 BB

[Chairman Wood]

Include reads, they are so important to hands like this. It is nearly impossible to truly give you a solid evalution of your play here without one. I will try to think about this in terms of how I would evaluate an unknown 3/6 player at Party.

Okay I think about it and I like:
Flop: Hands he bets at you with Any K, Any Q (which you beat most of),99, 88,77,66. I think it is unlikely yet possible he has JJ, TT, or higher pocket pairs as most typical 3/6 players 3 bet that here. sometimes not though. A lot of pair of 5's will bet at you here. JT bets at you here. I also believe that it is more likely that any K check raises you here. Being so I really like the idea of just calling and letting him keep bluffing or keep what he may be thinking as value betting here by just calling down. You don't have a super strong hand so a raise would scare him off of a lot of hands such as the mid pocket pairs I described above. I like the fact that you just let him keep coming at you.

[The Dude]

That's a reasonable line to take against an unknown. If you're playing the hand like that always, then you're missing some bets somewhere, so you should be considering what kind of player BB is. However, if he were completely unknown that line looks totally fine to me.

[Webster]

Looks good to me! As long as he is content to follow I'll bet.

[oreogod]

I dont really think a weak K will check raise u here. Its possible, but he could think u have KQ, AK, etc. I think its more likely that a weak K would bet here (???), along with a ton of other hands.

Either way, I like a call down....

EDIT: ....against an unknown of course.

[sy_or_bust]

This is OK. Against predictable players it is usually better to raise the flop.

[PokerBob]

If you plan on calling the turn and river, I think you should raise the turn to give yourself some folding equity. Another possibility is raise the flop, bet the turn, check the river. This gets you to SD for 2BB. That said, I'd be very tempted to fold this flop. Is BB gonna bet into the pf raise w/out a K here? A read makes this hand infinitely easier to play.

[HajiShirazu]

I usually toss in at least one raise on the flop, or raise the turn for the free showdown and charge draws. This donk bet is often made with a draw or some other hand that you beat, I'm sure everybody knows that already but it's worth repeating that most people don't just donk the top pair here, although there are types that do it. Reads are big in these situations obviously.
The turn isn't really a great card, and calling down is reasonable enough.

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
If you plan on calling the turn and river, I think you should raise the turn to give yourself some folding equity. Another possibility is raise the flop, bet the turn, check the river. This gets you to SD for 2BB. That said, I'd be very tempted to fold this flop. Is BB gonna bet into the pf raise w/out a K here? A read makes this hand infinitely easier to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold equity? What hands that beat me will fold here?

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]


Fold equity? What hands that beat me will fold here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. MAYBE a really bad K, but probably not. What I should have said is that IMO you want to show this down cheaply. If he is betting a Q, you are ahead but he won't fold. If he is betting a K, you are behind and he likely won't fold. If I am going beyond the flop, I want to SD cheaply, as IMO he is betting a hand a beats us more often than not.

[baronzeus]

The point I wanted to make with this post is that raising even when you are about 50%-60%to have the best hand is bad.

A lot of times, donks bet mid and low pair and draws and simply c/r top pair with good kickers.

In this case, I let him bet TT all the way to the river. If he catches a T, so be it, I know that I will win this hand 90% of the time and want him to play with me all the way down.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
The point I wanted to make with this post is that raising even when you are about 50%-60%to have the best hand is bad.



[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you have the best hand here more than 50% of the time. This guy was a retard.

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The point I wanted to make with this post is that raising even when you are about 50%-60%to have the best hand is bad.



[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you have the best hand here more than 50% of the time. This guy was a retard.

[/ QUOTE ]


I agree. So are most Party 3/6 players.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The point I wanted to make with this post is that raising even when you are about 50%-60%to have the best hand is bad.



[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you have the best hand here more than 50% of the time. This guy was a retard.

[/ QUOTE ]


I agree. So are most Party 3/6 players.

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt that most, or even many, party 3/6 players are going to fire 3 barrells into that board with TT against a pf raiser. From my experience they tend to be retarded/passive, not retarded/aggressive. I can deifinately see one calling down with this hand though.

[cdxx]

AQ or QJ??? just an idea. i would raise the flop, though that probably won't get him to fold. then, if he checks on the turn and is faced with a bet, there's some fold equity.

i can't imagine anyone folding a weak king, but who knows.