Tips on going to a car dealership?

[HelloNasty]

I've never purchased a car before but will being going in to get my 1st new car sometime soon, anyone have any tips on getting the best price? A dealer emailed me a price on a car I wanted and the MSRP was 17.1k he said he would sell it for 15.2k, how much more can I get the price down? Also, I'm going to be paying in cash would this make any difference on how much more I can save? Thanks guys.

[Sooga]

try this page (http://www.carbuyingtips.com)

[squeek12]

look up the invoice price on kbb.com, print it, bring it to the salesman. add $600 to that price and don't budge.

[DasLeben]

First off, make sure that you're negotiating the sticker price, not the monthly payment. I cannot stress this enough. It already looks like you're doing this, but I just wanted to mention that to anyone else reading this.

Now, MSRP on a car is highly marked up from the dealer invoice, if you haven't already guessed. Many cars are marked up in the range of $3,000-$5,000 or more, so it's your job to try to get the car for as close as you can to invoice. Now, doing this is actually pretty damn easy. Here's how the whole thing works, from the salesman's side:

1. He sits you down, and fills out a little form with the sticker price (MSRP) and any trade-in information that you may have. He'll then go to the "desk" and speak with a sales manager. The sales manager will punch numbers and give the salesman the "first pencil," which is simply a monthly payment, or if paying cash, an "out the door" price based on MSRP. The first pencil is always higher than what people get. Don't freak out.

2. You'll say "That's too high!" The salesman expects it. He'll normally ask "what's too high?" If you say that the sticker price is too high, he'll ask you what you think is fair. If the car is stickered for $18k and you ask for $17k, the salesman will cross out the original sticker price and write "$17,000." He'll go back to talk to his sales manager, and more often than not, he'll come back and shake your hand.

But do you see how that all worked? The salesman was controlling the deal. He's not going to lowball the dealership when you say that the price is too high. He'll ask you what you think is fair, and get you that price. Now, you may smile and think to yourself that you have great negotiating skills, but the price that you gave him is probably still well above the invoice price. You think you got a great deal, and the dealership still pockets a couple grand in profit.

Now, here's what I suggest that you do. When you sit down with the salesman, ask him to see the dealership's invoice on the car. He'll go talk to his sales manager and try to get it for you (because afterall, he'll still make money on the deal regardless). If the sales manager comes in to talk to you personally to try to avoid giving you the invoice (only the bad ones will do this), stick to your guns. More often than not, you'll have no problem seeing the invoice. Hell, I've made copies of the invoice for people to take home. Once you see that invoice price, it's fair game to ask for that. You'll get it.

Enjoy.

[balkii]

buying a car new is ridiculous. it loses so much value the minute you drive off the lot. why not just buy a very nice 1 year old used car?

[DasLeben]

[ QUOTE ]
buying a car new is ridiculous. it loses so much value the minute you drive off the lot. why not just buy a very nice 1 year old used car?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's true that the car depreciates once you buy it, but it's all dependent on what you paid for it. Say that you bought a car for MSRP and drive it off the lot. Suddenly, halfway home, you want to take it back and trade it in. The dealership will give you wholesale (invoice) price for it, not the original MSRP. If MSRP is $21,000 and invoice is $18,000, the car will depreciate $3,000 right as you drive off the lot to go home. That's pretty huge.

But, assuming you can get the car for invoice, the car's value will drop $0 right as you leave the lot.

Also, I'd like to point out that many people are very concerned with warranties, which many used cars don't have.

[OtisTheMarsupial]

Here's what I got:

Go toward the endof the month. Dealers have quotas and if you go at the end, they might be more willing to negociate because they want to make their quota.

When you test drive, do exactly that. Don't talk price at all. Just test drive. Talk about the weather or the car's performance. If you can't get the dealer to shut up, turn on the radio really loud.

Know what the car should cost before you negociate anything.

You can negociate from home or office instead. Do it on the phone or even email or fax. This gets you out of their manipuative, high pressure situation.

Find your own financing before you buy. The dealership will rip you off with their financing.

[HelloNasty]

Thanks for the replies guys, I appreciate all the advice.

Balkii I was originally gonna do exactly what you suggested but a slightly used Honda Civic is almost the same price as a new one.

[Randy_Refeld]

I bought a newq var about a year ago. After I decided on what kind I wanted I bought the dealer pricing info from Consumer Reports. It was $12 and this is important because there is a discount not represneted on teh invoice (I forget what it was called, but on teh car I bought the dealer stood to make $600 if he sold it at invoice). I went to two different delaerships and drove a car at each one that woudl be acceptable. At the first dealership I heard his best offer and left. At the second dealership (I had already been there earlier in the day) he had his "best offer" ready and I offered to buy the car at $150 below invoice (leaving the dealership $450 profit) and they stalled for a while and said there was no way they could lose money on the car (they denied taht GM was going to give the $600 when they sold the car). I went back to the first dealership and made them the same offer and drove home in my new car allowing the dealer $450 profit.

[Ray Zee]

there are also rebates. you must know about them or the dealer keeps them for himself. if they easily sell for near invioce there are ussually rebates that you we entitled to they keep. thousands of dollars at times.
after that and getting the invoice.( dont ever buy a car from a dealer that wont give you a copy to check its the same car.) the dealer gets 3% holdback from the manufacturer if its and american car and also close to that for others. this is their hidden profit.
sticker price without add on is about 15% higher than invoice price in most all cases.

a fair price on a model not too late in the year is 500 over invoice and you get all rebates.
hot cars and limited ones you cant get this deal.

buy a buddies car and get the fair price from kbb.com. new car buying is too painful unless you want to get screwed.

[Fred G Sanford]

Will you be looking for a 2005 or an '06? GM is offering a very big incentive on 2005 models. Its called the employee price rebate. I am pretty sure this is national and not just in the Northeast. It is a very good deal, roughly 1k behind invoice and you also get to take the other rebates off as well if any apply.

FGS

[lucas9000]

be ready and willing to walk out. being truly willing to walk off the lot if you don't like the way it's going, and doing it, is a pretty powerful bargaining tool. when i bought my car the salesman and his boss ran up to me as i was pulling out of the lot. also i wasn't just doing it as some hollow bargaining tool.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
be ready and willing to walk out. being truly willing to walk off the lot if you don't like the way it's going, and doing it, is a pretty powerful bargaining tool. when i bought my car the salesman and his boss ran up to me as i was pulling out of the lot. also i wasn't just doing it as some hollow bargaining tool.

[/ QUOTE ]

Happened to me as well, just this way. They really wait until the last second to see if you're bluffing. Fuckers.

[jackdaniels]

Great thread! Iwish I knew about that invoice thingy a while back! BTW - does this apply to "Certified Pre-Owned" (used) cars on their lot as well or only new ones from the factory?

TIA

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
buying a car new is ridiculous. it loses so much value the minute you drive off the lot. why not just buy a very nice 1 year old used car?

[/ QUOTE ]

because you have to ask yourself why the original owner just sold a one-year old car. this is why cars lose a lot of value as soon as you drive it off the lot - even if there's nothing wrong with it, the prospective buyer can't really be convinced of that.

[RacersEdge]

[ QUOTE ]
First off, make sure that you're negotiating the sticker price, not the monthly payment. I cannot stress this enough. It already looks like you're doing this, but I just wanted to mention that to anyone else reading this.


[/ QUOTE ]

I've always heard this one, but why is it always the case? I mean if they offer 0% interest rate (whoever was doing this a year or so ago had to stop because it wasn't prifitable enough)financing for a given price and it makes your payments very low, what difference does it make? I mean there are many ways to lower your cash flow for your car payments - price is one, financing is another.

[samjjones]

[ QUOTE ]
I bought a newq var about a year ago. After I decided on what kind I wanted I bought the dealer pricing info from Consumer Reports. It was $12 and this is important because there is a discount not represneted on teh invoice (I forget what it was called, but on teh car I bought the dealer stood to make $600 if he sold it at invoice). I went to two different delaerships and drove a car at each one that woudl be acceptable. At the first dealership I heard his best offer and left. At the second dealership (I had already been there earlier in the day) he had his "best offer" ready and I offered to buy the car at $150 below invoice (leaving the dealership $450 profit) and they stalled for a while and said there was no way they could lose money on the car (they denied taht GM was going to give the $600 when they sold the car). I went back to the first dealership and made them the same offer and drove home in my new car allowing the dealer $450 profit.

[/ QUOTE ]
I second the Consumer Reports thing. I brought the printout with me, and the salesman couldn't argue with the facts. The $12 guide, plus the fact that I went on the last day of the month, saved me almost $9K off the sticker price of my Jeep.

[sam h]

1) Do some research, pick a very low price, and don't budge for a long time.

2) Be ready to walk away.

3) Tell them candidly that you're shopping around and that you've seen what other dealerships offer. Going to multiple dealerships is a good idea in general, but even if you don't, you can bluff with this.

4) Remember: They want to close the deal right then. You walking away, or going to another dealership, is their worst nightmare. When they tell you that they can't go any lower, they are blowing smoke. If you walk away, you can always go back. But you can't figure out how low they'll go until you've credibly threatened to leave.

[OtisTheMarsupial]

[ QUOTE ]
be ready and willing to walk out. being truly willing to walk off the lot if you don't like the way it's going, and doing it, is a pretty powerful bargaining tool. when i bought my car the salesman and his boss ran up to me as i was pulling out of the lot. also i wasn't just doing it as some hollow bargaining tool.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why it's better to negociate by phone, fax or email. This way you have much more power. They don't know if you have lawyer working with you or if you're shopping other dealers... They HAVE to play fair or not play.

[DasLeben]

I agree that walking away is a great bargaining tool. However, at least be polite about it. Salesman are people too, and we pay rent and eat from commission off our sales. We work 100% off of commission, so any person walking out of our office without a car is one less bill we can pay.

I constantly have people being rude to me. Seriously, at least 3-4 times a day, I have someone I've never met before label me as an "[censored] salesman" and ignore me, be rude to me, or tell me to leave them alone. I'd love to ask these people where they work, and come and be rude to them. I think it'd be great.

Seriously, if you don't like the deal a salesman is giving you, you're welcome to leave. But, BE NICE ABOUT IT. I had a guy recently just stand up and walk out of my office without even saying a word. I'd spent an hour and a half with him looking at cars and talking numbers, too. He just got up and walked out to his truck without a word. How do you think that makes us feel?

Also, keep in mind that it's not the salesman who is just making up prices. The salesman gets all the figures (monthly payments, etc.) from the sales managers. If you have a problem with the price and the salesman can't do anything about it, oblige him and talk to his manager. We don't get in a bit of trouble if you'd like to speak to a manager, either. Just ask!

[DasLeben]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
First off, make sure that you're negotiating the sticker price, not the monthly payment. I cannot stress this enough. It already looks like you're doing this, but I just wanted to mention that to anyone else reading this.


[/ QUOTE ]

I've always heard this one, but why is it always the case? I mean if they offer 0% interest rate (whoever was doing this a year or so ago had to stop because it wasn't prifitable enough)financing for a given price and it makes your payments very low, what difference does it make? I mean there are many ways to lower your cash flow for your car payments - price is one, financing is another.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well that's just the thing. You're still paying MSRP in the long run. Here's how this works (we'll assume 0% APR as you said):

Say a car is stickered (MSRP) at $25,000. That equates to roughly $500/month over a period of 48 months. But hey, you don't want to pay $500/month. Since you're a monthly payment buyer, you say that you want $400/month instead. That's easy. All we do is simply increase the term of the loan. Instead of paying it back over 48 months, we'll add a year. If you pay back over 60 months, you're paying your $400/month just as you wanted to. But in the long run, you're still paying $25,000 for the car.

Now if you talk the price down to $20,000, you can easily pay your $400/month over the shorter term.

By all means, negotiate monthly payment only, and let the dealership make an extra $5,000 from you. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[JinX11]

If you're financing any of the amount, a loan amortization calculator is essential.

Even if the salesman gives you a good bottom-line price, your down payment and monthly payment may not add up to that good price. I'm currently looking into leasing a new car and had the pleasant encounter with Mazda who were "willing" to lease me a car with a bottom-line price about 2K below invoice (researched beforehand from Edmunds.com), but based on down payment, monthly payments, and lease-end residual value they were offering me, the APR on the lease was oh say about 60%.

And he couldn't understand why I said no.

1) Get the best bottom-line price you can. Use Edmunds.com, KBB, and/or NADA to do this.

2) If you're financing anything, make sure the down payment and monthly payments add up to the bottom line price plus the APR they are offering. They won't give you the APR if you don't ask; APR is negotiable, as well. This is where your loan amortization calculator will come in handy.

Best of luck.

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

Consumer Reports is a great resource, and well worth the $12. Figure out what the car is worth and how much it should cost. Don't budge.

Beware the "processing fee." Some states have made this illegal, because it is a bullshit charge that the dealerships add on to get another $150-300 out of you. I tell them that processing paperwork is simply a cost of doing business, and that such fees are unethical (and in some places illegal). I cannot charge insurance companies for the time it takes to bill them, nor can lawyers charge for time spent doing billing, so I refuse to pay it.

Dealers spring this on you once the deal is done, and know that you may grumble, but you will not see it as a huge deal. After all, what's another $300 when you are spending $20,000 or more? They will tell you lots of things (I had one dealer tell me the charge was required by law), but the bottom line is that there is no justification for the fee. In every case, I threatened to walk and refused to sign. In every case they told me they HAD TO charge the fee, but when they saw I meant I would walk, they offered to reduce the price of the car by the same amount asa the fee. The last two times, they had to reprint the bill because I lined out the charge and wrote in the "corrected" price. Each time this added about 20 minutes to the paperwork time, but saved me $150-$300, which is way +EV.

Best part about this tactic, is that you have turned the tables on them. They count on screwing you out of that extra money when making the deal, knowing you won't fight once a deal is done. In fact, it hurts them to fail to make the deal much more than it hurts you, so in this situation you have all the power. Sweet.

[lu_hawk]

Best advice is don't go to the dealership intent on leaving with a car that day.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that walking away is a great bargaining tool. However, at least be polite about it. Salesman are people too, and we pay rent and eat from commission off our sales. We work 100% off of commission, so any person walking out of our office without a car is one less bill we can pay.

I constantly have people being rude to me. Seriously, at least 3-4 times a day, I have someone I've never met before label me as an "[censored] salesman" and ignore me, be rude to me, or tell me to leave them alone. I'd love to ask these people where they work, and come and be rude to them. I think it'd be great.

Seriously, if you don't like the deal a salesman is giving you, you're welcome to leave. But, BE NICE ABOUT IT. I had a guy recently just stand up and walk out of my office without even saying a word. I'd spent an hour and a half with him looking at cars and talking numbers, too. He just got up and walked out to his truck without a word. How do you think that makes us feel?

Also, keep in mind that it's not the salesman who is just making up prices. The salesman gets all the figures (monthly payments, etc.) from the sales managers. If you have a problem with the price and the salesman can't do anything about it, oblige him and talk to his manager. We don't get in a bit of trouble if you'd like to speak to a manager, either. Just ask!

[/ QUOTE ]
ive dealt with at least 15 car salesmen, so far just one wasnt a scumbag
youre gonna have to switch jobs if you want people to start being nice to you, unless car salesmen all of a sudden stop screwing people.

[mostsmooth]

edmunds.com (http://www.edmunds.com/)

[DasLeben]

[ QUOTE ]
ive dealt with at least 15 car salesmen, so far just one wasnt a scumbag
youre gonna have to switch jobs if you want people to start being nice to you, unless car salesmen all of a sudden stop screwing people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry to hear about your bad track record. There are quite a few honest car salesmen out there, including myself. I just hate the stereotype put on us.

[DasLeben]

[ QUOTE ]
Consumer Reports is a great resource, and well worth the $12. Figure out what the car is worth and how much it should cost. Don't budge.

Beware the "processing fee." Some states have made this illegal, because it is a bullshit charge that the dealerships add on to get another $150-300 out of you. I tell them that processing paperwork is simply a cost of doing business, and that such fees are unethical (and in some places illegal). I cannot charge insurance companies for the time it takes to bill them, nor can lawyers charge for time spent doing billing, so I refuse to pay it.

Dealers spring this on you once the deal is done, and know that you may grumble, but you will not see it as a huge deal. After all, what's another $300 when you are spending $20,000 or more? They will tell you lots of things (I had one dealer tell me the charge was required by law), but the bottom line is that there is no justification for the fee. In every case, I threatened to walk and refused to sign. In every case they told me they HAD TO charge the fee, but when they saw I meant I would walk, they offered to reduce the price of the car by the same amount asa the fee. The last two times, they had to reprint the bill because I lined out the charge and wrote in the "corrected" price. Each time this added about 20 minutes to the paperwork time, but saved me $150-$300, which is way +EV.

Best part about this tactic, is that you have turned the tables on them. They count on screwing you out of that extra money when making the deal, knowing you won't fight once a deal is done. In fact, it hurts them to fail to make the deal much more than it hurts you, so in this situation you have all the power. Sweet.

[/ QUOTE ]

At my dealership, when we first start talking numbers with a customer, we write the price along with "+ fees" next to it. For example, "$25,000 + fees." The customer always knows that there are extra charges this way. It's not hidden.

By the way, the only charges I'm aware of at my dealership are tax/title/license fees. These are required by law.

[Talk2BigSteve]

A friend of mine that I have know since high school called me today and told me about a car that he has on his lot. I went and looked at it and it is in EXCELLENT condition.

It looks just like this one that I found on Ebay.
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/1765/01elderado2gd.jpg
He is the owner of a used car lot here in town and he knows that I will be needing a new car soon(I hope to be upgraded to a walker next week *crosses fingers*)

He has a 2001 Cadillac Eldorado ETC Coupe with 38,000 miles on it. He is listing it for $22,995 but told me that I could have it for $16,995 which he said is just a little profit for him.

It has never been in an accident and has a certified CARFAX report.

Is this a good deal? Ever since I sold my 1991 Coupe DeVille I have missed driving a Cadillac, but I will not shell out for a new one, but I am tempted to shell out for a used one.

Steve

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ive dealt with at least 15 car salesmen, so far just one wasnt a scumbag
youre gonna have to switch jobs if you want people to start being nice to you, unless car salesmen all of a sudden stop screwing people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry to hear about your bad track record. There are quite a few honest car salesmen out there, including myself. I just hate the stereotype put on us.

[/ QUOTE ]
im sure the scumbags vastly outnumber the good guys like yourself