A couple tough decisions... [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Malachii

07-04-2005, 08:34 PM

First hand

I turned bottom two pair out of the BB. UTG is a calling station, no read on the player that pushes. I don't see a standard player semi bluffing on the turn, and I don't see anyone being this aggressive with a hand like AJ. I thought I was probably behind J9 and folded. Anyone make this call?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG ($36.95)
MP ($10.55)
CO ($13.2)
Button ($11.4)
SB ($18.8)
Hero ($52.85)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, CO calls $0.25, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($1) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1, UTG calls $1, CO calls $1, SB folds.

Turn: ($4) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets $3, UTG calls $3, CO raises to $11.95 (All-In), Hero folds, UTG calls $8.95.

River: ($30.90) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $30.90

The limp reraiser in question here just lost a big pot where he bluffed into a calling station. He may be steaming. My eights could easily be the best hand here, how do you like my flop minraise? I think it's the best way to test him and figure out if my eights are good or not. If he reraises I'm done. On the turn, I figured I couldn't afford to give a free card if he has AK, but I don't want to make a big bet and have him checkraise me all in.

How do you guys like the line I took?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB ($38.95)
BB ($5.3)
UTG ($24.75)
MP ($11.9)
CO ($34.55)
Hero ($31.05)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, CO calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1, SB calls $0.90, 1 fold, CO raises to $4, Hero calls $3, SB folds.

Flop: ($9.25) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
CO bets $5, Hero raises to $10, CO calls $5.

Turn: ($29.25) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $10...

Malachii

07-05-2005, 05:02 PM

Bump

djoyce003

07-05-2005, 05:22 PM

barring reads on this guy I don't think a fold is awful, however you are getting pretty good odds on a call...that's a smallish push given the size of the pot. It's 9 to you to win a $20+ pot....if the other guy calls its even better. I think you could see a big raise here with just top pair...this is 25 party poker after all. You could see 23 suited here i'd think...j 9 isn't the only possibility.

Hand 2 - I hate the mini-raise. It doesn't keep him from calling. The point of the raise is to get more money in while you are ahead, get your opponent to fold, or gain information. The mini-raise only does the first thing...he isn't folding to it, you aren't gaining any information as any hand would call here. He could be calling with AA, he could be calling with JJ...he likely isn't folding for any bet you could make on the turn as he's already got half his stack in there, he's obliged to call with almost anything unless its totally missed overcards. If you are raising the flop you've gotta raise it to 15 or 20 at least. This is a fold preflop I think, you are way out of wack on the 5/10 rule here...you are calling a $4 bet with a $30 stack, and you have no way of knowing where you are after the flop.

dinero2433

07-05-2005, 05:32 PM

I don't like the fold in the first hand that much - given the pusher's stack size and the relatively innocuous turn card, I think hands like top pair good kicker might push here. 23 suited could also be in play (unlikely). You are also getting laid pretty good odds on a call.

Anyone want to reraise to try and push out UTG's possible straight and flush draws?

Malachii

07-05-2005, 05:34 PM

Hey Djoyce

[ QUOTE ]
This is a fold preflop I think, you are way out of wack on the 5/10 rule here...you are calling a $4 bet with a $30 stack, and you have no way of knowing where you are after the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point, it did violate the 5/10 rule. If this had been a small pair, I would've folded to that raise. However, I think a pair of eights has a fair amount of strength by itself. Also, remember the guy had just lost a big pot and I felt like he was tilting.

[ QUOTE ]
The point of the raise is to get more money in while you are ahead, get your opponent to fold, or gain information. The mini-raise only does the first thing...he isn't folding to it, you aren't gaining any information as any hand would call here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it does give me some information. If Villain 3 bets, I know I'm beaten and can fold. If he leads turn, I'm beaten and can fold. Minraising also might give me some fold equity since so many players minraise their monsters in this spot, although with this board that's not terribly likely.

If I just smoothcall, I don't know if being value bet if he leads the turn or if he's bluffing his Ace King since he's tilting. It puts me in a very murky situation in a big pot. I think I definitely have to raise here, but I can't raise much more than the minimum with these stack sizes.

[ QUOTE ]
If you are raising the flop you've gotta raise it to 15 or 20 at least.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure about that given my stack size. I think a raise of 15/20$ completely commits me to the pot, and there's a lot I'm behind here. Of course, given that I feel as if Villain could be on tilt, there's a lot I'm ahead of here too.

Thank you for your post

djoyce003

07-05-2005, 05:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I think it does give me some information. If Villain 3 bets, I know I'm beaten and can fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. If I have AQ, KK, or AA, i'm calling here, and checkraising you all in on the turn. If you make any bet at that turn after the minraise you are pot comitted....you pretty much have to bet since you checkraised the turn and he called. Minraises are almost never right and I don't think it was really right here either because you picked up no fold equity whatsoever. I think the villian could easily have 99-JJ here and the queen has him worried, but your weak flop raise doesn't necessarily mean queen, it could mean 2 spades and I want a free turn.