HOH 2, WILL THIS RUIN POKER?

[jonnyv]

After reading HOH 2, I am amazed at the amount of info it provides and the though occured to me that this info could be the end of NL tourny poker as we know it. Books one and two are so good that even a novice can read them and have a good grasp on how to beat the game.

I for one will be putting more time into Omaha as it is now only a matter of time until hold'em will be another 7 card stud.

[iluzion]

SSHE is the same way, if you ask me, yet the games are still great..

[Rah]

[ QUOTE ]
After reading HOH 2, I am amazed at the amount of info it provides and the though occured to me that this info could be the end of NL tourny poker as we know it. Books one and two are so good that even a novice can read them and have a good grasp on how to beat the game.

I for one will be putting more time into Omaha as it is now only a matter of time until hold'em will be another 7 card stud.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious? How many fishes do you think are interesting in reading poker books?

[Greg J]

This reminds me of a post today by a nother well intentioned, but equally wrong poster in micro talking about the need to shift gears in the Party .5/1 game b/c those guys are analysing you on thier PT data and PV/GT.

Seriously dude, most people just watch poker on TV and think they are experts. Most do not have the intellectual discipline to to study enough to get good enough to beat the game.

That being said, if HoH1 is any indication, HoH2 is probably priceless. HoH1 has payed for itself for me several times over.

[jonnyv]

After reading HOH 2, I am amazed at the amount of info it provides and the though occured to me that this info could be the end of NL tourny poker as we know it. Books one and two are so good that even a novice can read them and have a good grasp on how to beat the game.

I for one will be putting more time into Omaha as it is now only a matter of time until hold'em will be another 7 card stud.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Are you serious? How many fishes do you think are interesting in reading poker books?


Listen, how can the pro's compete as most people who are entering large events are net qualifiers who read most books on the subject. Where is their edge now? No one on this site ever talked about a M or a Q or red, organge zone until this came out. Heads up stratagy is worth the price of the book alone.

No it will not ruin the internet or b and m play but how long will it last when a bunch of unknowns start making final tables instead of pros. Harrington is older and wiser and is making a bundle by writing these books. In a way it could be his way of having the last laugh as he is now heading to retirment while others are just starting to make thier mark. Just wondering if this same thing happened when Super System was first released.

[Rah]

[ QUOTE ]
No it will not ruin the internet or b and m play but how long will it last when a bunch of unknowns start making final tables instead of pros.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unknowns have been making final tables for thirty years.

[eric5148]

I totally agree. EVERY 2+2ER SHOULD NEVER PLAY HOLDEM AGAIN.

[jonnyv]

Let me explain it this way, once a magician's tricks are revealed it raises the bar to come up with a whole new bag of tricks as the audience(fish) will know what he is doing and no longer be fooled. He can come up with new tricks or he is now a dinasaur in his trade.

[jonnyv]

Eric, I never said that people should stop playing. I said NL tourny poker will never be the same. Take time to read a post before flaming me. I am not a troll and have used this forum to improve my game like most others. I love reading and have read most 2+2 books along with others and feel that HOH 1+2 are the best on NL ever. The strategy is very complex and anyone willing to put in serious time can learn fairly quickly what took most people years to learn.

I have already won one big tourny after filling the many leaks to my tourny strategy. I am a limit player who plays 100 home tourneys with 30+ players and though I usually finished in the money I never understood how to finish it out. There are many on this forum who put in as much time as I do and it won't be long that many pros will have to adjust and find new tricks or be left in the middle of the pack. The bar has been raised. How long until the game is mastered by so many that it comes down to a good run instead of pure skill? How long until the pros simply move to ring games where the games are still soft because the tournys are full of sharks? How long until the holdem boom ends? Its never too early to learn a game to be ahead of the curve!!

[eric5148]

Your logic is severely flawed. TOP and HPFAP have been around for years. If every limit holdem cash game player read and UNDERSTOOD them, there wouldn't be any profitable games. So why are there still good games?

1 - Poker is a gambling game. Not everyone plays for profit, no matter what they say.

2 - Just because someone has read a book, doesn't mean they have incorporated all or any of the skills and ideas from the book into their game. You still need to have playing experience and an understanding of how to execute each idea. I hear morons in the chat window constantly talking about how "TOP says AQ is a very marginal hand, and you shouldn't raise it preflop." Or "such and such book says you shouldn't bet a draw in a multiway pot." Most people don't make the effort to learn, they just move their eyes over the words and think they've become a great player because they read some book.

3 - Poker is a game of male egos. Many of them don't think they need to read books or study the game at all to be a good player.

[ChoicestHops]

It's not going to ruin poker.

However, some of you dont realize how many people are reading these books. HOH1 is still in the top 100 books sold on amazon.com, and HOH2 is in the top 50.

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
3 - Poker is a game of male egos. Many of them don't think they need to read books or study the game at all to be a good player.

[/ QUOTE ]
Excacitigly

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
I for one will be putting more time into Omaha as it is now only a matter of time until hold'em will be another 7 card stud.

[/ QUOTE ]



Hmmm... when was it again that they switched the WSOP main event from 7-card-stud to Hold'em?? Hmmmmm......



Oh ya, ... you're a moron.



Adam

[Hold'me]

[ QUOTE ]
After reading HOH 2, I am amazed at the amount of info it provides and the though occured to me that this info could be the end of NL tourny poker as we know it. Books one and two are so good that even a novice can read them and have a good grasp on how to beat the game.

I for one will be putting more time into Omaha as it is now only a matter of time until hold'em will be another 7 card stud.

[/ QUOTE ]
I understand Dan Harrington is currently working on a Volume 3 so you still have some little time to assassinate him and save no-limit hold'em!

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me explain it this way, once a magician's tricks are revealed it raises the bar to come up with a whole new bag of tricks as the audience(fish) will know what he is doing and no longer be fooled. He can come up with new tricks or he is now a dinasaur in his trade.

[/ QUOTE ]
Poor analogy. The audience does not practice magic.

You really are overreacting to this. The sky is not falling.

[casinogosain]

The biggest thing you overlook is that there will be a very large percentage of those that read the information and apply it incorrectly.

-Ash

[Aceshigh7]

Give me a break. Reading this and other books will make you a better player. But no book written or will be written in the future will give the kind of edge you are talking about. Sounds like you haven't played alot of high buy-in tournament poker.

[Lawrence Ng]

Please STFU.

Wait..on second thought,

Just STFU

Lawrence

[Isura]

lol.

[autobet]

no more hold em...how sad

chess anyone?

[Mooski]

I'm not sure we can play chess. I think someone wrote a book on that too!

We're all dooooomed! DOOMED I TELLS YA!!!

[ginko]

If anything, the pros will love this. Instead of having opponents that make super lux donk moves(ie; highly volitile), they have a bunch of mediocre easy to read players. Sure you will get your few new good players, but beyond that, it's only easier.

[sirtimo]

It dosn't matter even if they sell a million copies of HOH1 and HOH2 because...

A) 80% of the buyers will just thumb through them, pick up the buzzwords, and put them on the shelf.

B) Half of the remaning 20% won't even really read through the problem sections 'cause thats too much work.

C) Half of the remaining 10% aren't smart enough or disciplned enough or skilled enough to apply what they learned.

D) Half of the remaining 5% will keep poker as an interesting hobby or diversion but are smart enough to keep their money in real estate or stock speculation or securities, where real money should be.

E) Of the remaining very small subset of tough, smart poker players, most could have gotten there without HOH 1&2, not that it didn't help.

So relax, there are plenty of fish in the sea....even fish with lots of 2+2 books on the shelves.

regards,
Tim

[Farfenugen]

No, for the same reasons card counting books didn't ruin blackjack for the casinos.

There are too many idiots who either don't bother to read, don't understand the information, or are too undisciplined to follow it.

[adanthar]

HoH2 will ruin poker only if the people reading the shorthanded advice to call a minraise with Q6o for 1/4 of your stack and then check/fold a flop that misses go broke too quickly. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2736604&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1)

[Toddy]

im new to this site.. where can i buy HOH2?

[MicroBob]

very true.

there are many bj players who can't even figure out the difference between 6:5 and 3:2 pay-out games....much less actually count cards.

There are many roulette players who think they are doing better if they place their chips in pretty little patterns around the board.


I've been playing the single-table satllites at the WSOP this week and the number of REALLY bad players is astonishing.

EP raise, 2 cold-calls, button goes all-in (I fold in SB), EP calls, middle guys fold.
EP guy has KJo and button has 99.
This happened yesterday (99 held up).


While I've been getting pretty lucky...I've been able to finish in the top 2 (out of 10) in 4 of my last 5 of these (and 7 of 12 overall).
It's incredible watching some of these people play.


Most people do NOT read the books. Many people have never even HEARD of the books.
Most people think they already know how to play and don't need a book to help them.


HOH2 is a great book (from what I've read so far)...thankfully, most players get some vague idea of how to play by watching Gus Hansen make some courageous (to say the least) moves 4-handed on the WPT, These players fail to realize that 10-handed can be different and that they aren't Gus Hansen.


They blame the other players for their own 'bad-beats' when they horribly mis-play their aces...etc etc etc.


Why ANYONE would assume that everyone is going to run out and buy HOH2 and become a great player is beyond me.
Books have been out there in other forms of poker for a long time....yet most players still suck.

[poker-penguin]

Using my advanced chronological-displacment simulator I have found the following exchange from somewhere in Texas sometimes before I was born.

1) OMG S/S roxxors!
2) LOL It's going to ruin poker.
1) STFU
2) No it is, everyone's going to read it and poker is doomed!
3) STFU
4) STFU - fish don't read
5) STFU

Maybe it lost something in translation, but please stop the chicken little act.