KK hand

[soah]

Joined a 2/4 table. Not quite full. I fold for an orbit or so. Then I openraise to $14 from MP. BB is only caller. He is unknown. Flop is Qxx ragged and he bets $25, I fold. New player joins and posts a live blind in CO. I openraise to $16 and all fold. Next hand I am UTG seven-handed. I have KK and raise to $14. BB from the first hand is now on the button. He makes it $50. I call. Flop Q72 rainbow. I bet $50. He raises to $100. I call. Turn 3. I check. He bets $235 which only leaves him $24 left. I push.

The table had featured a couple of donks making typical donk moves but at least one of them had left before these hands started, and the rest of the table was playing in the sort of loose-passive/weak-tight manner that a lot of mediocre players play which saves them from losing many big pots but won't ever win much either. Which basically means that I'm trying to convey that there were lots of limped pots preflop as opposed to the type of game where the first player in the pot is expected to raise.

[Skjonne]

I push his $100 raise on the flop. Otherwise fine me thinks

[Macquarie]

Three-betting the flop gives him a good chance to get away from top pair. Much better to smooth call and either bet the turn or check if since it's fairly sure he'll bet.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Well, obviously Qxx is the worst possible flop for KK against a normal re-raiser. So if he is a normal re-raiser, you are behind. Personally, I dont think he has displayed sufficient donkitude to increase his re-raising range much beyond AA-JJ/AK or to think that he would play JJ/AK like this postflop. I think I would c/c flop to snap off continuation bets with AK/JJ/whatever and then I'd lead the turn and fold to a raise.

[soah]

I only have one bet left on the turn.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
I only have one bet left on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I didn't realise that you led for half pot on the flop. I thought full pot on the flop still left you with 250 behind in a $150 pot. Now that I see how short it is, I'm not sure. You're obviously still way behind AA-QQ. What else will he make that min-raise with on the flop? I'm not sure. Hard to say without playing in that game.

[soah]

I think a major consideration is that he led into me after my PFR on the first hand. That is not a play that a typical player makes. Also, the fact that I gave him the pot without a fight seems relevent as well.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
I think a major consideration is that he led into me after my PFR on the first hand. That is not a play that a typical player makes. Also, the fact that I gave him the pot without a fight seems relevent as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree that is seems relevant, but I'm not sure how so. Since we don't know what he had that time, it's hard to say. Two most likely hands would be top pair or a set, IMO. Here, if he just has TPTK obviously that's great for you and the most likely holding which you are ahead of. It also COULD be a stone cold bluff where he thinks he can push you off your hand on the turn since he views you as weak, but then why not just push the flop? Interesting hand. I usually don't get mixed up in these spots until I have more of a read on my opponent, but I could easily see it being +EV to do so. In fact, perhaps there is some merit in simply looking at it as "what is the likelihood that he had a hand which beat me last time and he also has a hand which beats KK here, versus the likelihood that he's simply an overaggro donk?" given that viewpoint, I definitely think the overaggro donk is more likely.

[soah]

So I guess this hand isn't interesting? I thought it might be helpful to those of you that just ram and jam preflop nonstop with your KK instead of trying to milk value postflop all the times that you're ahead.

[edge]

I lead into raisers all the time, with both good and bad hands. Sometimes leading makes the hand easier than checkraising.

[fimbulwinter]

I know it's dirty but i'd just throw it all-in preflop given what's led up to this hand. he's very likely to look you up with AQ+ and JJ+, IMO.

fim

[PinkSteel]

[ QUOTE ]
So I guess this hand isn't interesting? I thought it might be helpful to those of you that just ram and jam preflop nonstop with your KK instead of trying to milk value postflop all the times that you're ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you put him on a range, or just generally give him less credit for a strong hand given prior action?

For myself, I would still push it all in preflop -- (1) as fim suggested, the prior action seems to make it more likely he will call, and (2) more importantly for me, I don't want to play KK OOP against someone who seems aggressive when MY postflop skills are mediocre at best.

Given you're a strong postflop player, however, I like it a lot. I assume you were prepared to dump it with a scary board and serious aggression?