River folds - routine?

[tanda]

Opp is 53/19/0.4 after 62 hands.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (3.20 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

River: (5.20 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8.20 BB

Opp is 60/3/4.0 after 33 hands. His river agg is 0.00 since he has 1 raise, 4 bets, 2 checks and 2 folds with no river calls in 9 river hands.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 3 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.20 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (5.20 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8.20 BB

[tanda]

Anyone?

[college_boy]

Both look fine to me.

[obithrawn]

I agree. Seems unlikely that you are ahead.

[aba20]

I might call the second one if you had more hands on the villian and knew he was capable of a bluff. His stats strike me as someone who might bluff.

[Mig]

I personnally call the first one. You have good kicker and it's headsup. For the second hand I usually check/call since I have TP with no kicker and it completes a draw. Even the non aggro player will bet into you when you check to them with as low as bottom pair. Yesterday on a very big pot a player of that type raised me on a rivered flush he had king high... It's a good place to bluff. Anyway 60 hands is not enough to have a good read on someone so I think it's an easy call vs unknown... IMO... I may be way out of track here but with 60 hands I call. If you had 20k hands on him I would definitively fold to a river raiser vs someone with 0 river raise over 20k hands /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[jquattro]

I guess given the limit, it may be more likely that hes beating you. I dont really know. I personally have no problem calling both, and would likely win more than 1/9 of the hands.

[banks]

I call first hand. . . i cant bring myself to fold there

does anyone raise flop on hand 2??

[sam h]

I would not fold the second hand and would certainly raise the flop or turn.

When it comes to aggression factor, especially by street, your sample sizes make inferences completely meaningless.

[banks]

I think in the second hand - a huge range of hands are betting that flop that you are ahead of when its 3 handed and heads up on the flop. . .you need to get a raise in before the river IMO

[Jeff W]

I don't fold either of those. You must raise before river in hand 2.

[tanda]

Raising the flop is my standard play.

Sometimes, against someone with some aggression, I will just call with top pair terrible kicker, especially with position.

I do this with a bad ace and sometimes a bad king since free cards are not as much of a problem. If the opp is bluffing, then calling will win the maximum and, if I am behind, I may lose less.

On the rare occasions that this situation arises and the opp checks the river and I bet, I have found that a check-raise in the spot is almost always what it represents.

Seems I can only beat a bluff. Would the opp value check-raise less than top-pair? And why would opp not bluff by continuing to lead bet?

Some say both are folds, some say both are calls, some say one but not the other is a call, some say vice versa.

Less routine than I first thought.