Any scientologists here?

[eastbay]

I have a couple of questions for you.

eastbay

[KingOtter]

Like how could you POSSIBLY believe that crazy Xenu story?

[Blarg]

Is that the one about the lava gods from Mars or whatever?

Some of that stuff is as hilarious as Christianity.

[KingOtter]

Yeah, over population in another dimension so they brought them to earth in airplanes, stacked the bodies near volcanoes and dropped nukes in the volcanoes.

Hubbard was insane.

[Blarg]

LOL, they dispersed them with nukes? Hahah, peoples' imaginations just won't quit.

Hubbard definitely knew how to make a buck. And wasn't much on the ethics side, to say the least.

[KingOtter]

I think it started that way, but it snowballed and he couldn't stop it, and literally lost himself in it. Think kind of like Michael Jackson. Being surrounded by people who just say 'yeah, that's great!' and nobody saying 'you dork, that's stupid'.

KO

[wacki]

Hubbard describes "how 'Teegeeack' (Earth) came to be populated 75 million years ago by 'thetans' (souls) when the evil ruler Xenu of the Galactic Federation cast them into volcanos and blew them up with a hydrogen bomb to solve his local overpopulation problems."

http://www.mystae.com/streams/gnosis/otiii.html

WTF, I knew scientology was stupid but I didn't know it was that stupid. Man Tom Cruise really must be a looney.

[Duke]

[ QUOTE ]
WTF, I knew scientology was stupid but I didn't know it was that stupid. Man Tom Cruise really must be a looney.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not even sure if he "knows" that stuff. If you follow the correct Scientologist "path" or whatever, you don't hear about Xenu until you're sufficiently brainwashed about a million bucks and several sessions with an e-meter into it.

It's actually far more plausible than most religions, so to call him a looney kinda calls every single follower of any religion a looney. I'm not disputing this, and not attacking you (since I don't know or care about your religious affiliations or lack thereof), but any Christian who says that they're wacko because of the Xenu thing is a hypocrite.

~D

[[censored]]

Duke is right, it is simply of matter of Christianity and others having been around far longer and thus the stories are more excepted as the "norm" for religeous beliefs.

Also don't read anything more into the above then what is there.

[Russ McGinley]

[ QUOTE ]
Hubbard describes "how 'Teegeeack' (Earth) came to be populated 75 million years ago by 'thetans' (souls) when the evil ruler Xenu of the Galactic Federation cast them into volcanos and blew them up with a hydrogen bomb to solve his local overpopulation problems."

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.webaskew.com/cdb/pumpkin.gif

"I don't know what the FU<font color="black"></font>CK you just said, Little Kid, but you're special man, you reached out, and you touch a brother's heart."

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
but any Christian who says that they're wacko because of the Xenu thing is a hypocrite.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh I disagree. A lot of the stories in the bible really happened. A lot of the stuff is based in fact. The story about Joseph and his coat of many colors is true and there are tons of artifacts to back it up. There is proof that moses existed. You can go on and on.

Yes it's true that a lot of the stuff in the bible is out there but that is going to happen with a book that was slapped together from many independent writings from many different people thousands of years ago.

I don't know that much about scientology so maybe I should keep my mouth shut. Still, it gives the wrong impression.

[[censored]]

that's a good point Wacki, I wasn't thinking about it those terms.

[Duke]

If you start by telling a guy that an invisible man runs the universe, that he impregnated a virgin, the kid got crucified, and then came back to life, well, it sounds a bit far fetched. Just like Xenu.

Yes, much of the Bible really happened. Scientology doesn't get "super" goofy until way late in the game.

~D

[liquidboss]

It's just as plausible to me that life on Earth was created by volcanoes, nukes, and aliens as it was all made by an invisible man in the sky.

That is, very unplausible.

[Blarg]

The thing is, both start off with some value. The 10 commandments aren't bad really, especially to a bunch of warring tribes. And scientology's neurolinguistic programming stuff is pretty cool.

But it rapidly escalates in both cases into much greater silliness. Too bad.

[KingOtter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WTF, I knew scientology was stupid but I didn't know it was that stupid. Man Tom Cruise really must be a looney.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not even sure if he "knows" that stuff. If you follow the correct Scientologist "path" or whatever, you don't hear about Xenu until you're sufficiently brainwashed about a million bucks and several sessions with an e-meter into it.

It's actually far more plausible than most religions, so to call him a looney kinda calls every single follower of any religion a looney. I'm not disputing this, and not attacking you (since I don't know or care about your religious affiliations or lack thereof), but any Christian who says that they're wacko because of the Xenu thing is a hypocrite.

~D

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you see the survivors of Xenu's little fiasco were taken and put into these 3D theaters, where they were 'implanted' with all the stuff that you and I take for granted. Religion, for one.

I think Scientologists can only have limited contact to the 'real' world.. which starts after they attain the 'clear' status.

So when Tom Cruise says he knows the 'real' history of psychiatry... he probably isn't talking about 'history' like you and I think about history. As in, according to historical record. HE probably means, 'I know it's all a setup, implanted by the 3D movies after the survival of the volcano explosions'.

Scientology is all about brain-washing, and then protecting that brain-washing. So unless you're in Clearwater, FL running into a Scientologist would probably be pretty rare.

Btw... I only know about what I've read on the web about it, so I may have some bias against it inherent in my sources.

KO

[touchfaith]

http://www.evolvefish.com/fish/media/ewindows.gif

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
I think Scientologists can only have limited contact to the 'real' world.. which starts after they attain the 'clear' status.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true for Scientologists, and cults in general.

It's also one of the dirty secrets we don't want to admit about established religions, too. Or even clubs in general. One of the ways they promote cohesion among members is by denigrating, at least implicitly, outsiders or non-members. And it's very often not merely implicit. There's more than mere welcome in inundating new initiates with activities and assigning them "study buddies," etc. It's not enough that the new adherent bring himself to the club or religion, no matter how fully; he must also exclude things other, which goes hand in hand with devaluing them.

That's one of the saddest things about everything from trying to hang with the popular crowd in school to joining a religion or even getting an advanced degree; so often doing so is not constructed as a way to add to yourself, but also as a way to subtract from yourself, in ways including the negative ones. New believers or the newly promoted often disdain or purport to disdain things and people they enjoy, in a way that makes their lives and souls lesser. Whether it's the daughter who rejects her family because they're not "clear" or the man whose degree turns him into a newly minted jackass, everyone is made the lesser, and healthy relations with others are damaged rather than augmented. Which is especially sadly ironic considering the supposed purpose of gaining knowledge, wisdom, or religious insight would seem to be the broadening of the person rather than his isolation and shutting down.

[Zygote]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but any Christian who says that they're wacko because of the Xenu thing is a hypocrite.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh I disagree. A lot of the stories in the bible really happened. A lot of the stuff is based in fact. The story about Joseph and his coat of many colors is true and there are tons of artifacts to back it up. There is proof that moses existed. You can go on and on.

Yes it's true that a lot of the stuff in the bible is out there but that is going to happen with a book that was slapped together from many independent writings from many different people thousands of years ago.

I don't know that much about scientology so maybe I should keep my mouth shut. Still, it gives the wrong impression.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've obviously never read the old testament. I think god sending an angel down to test the homesexuality of a man, a test the man fails, and is then punished by having firery rain fall on and destroy his town is equally as ridiculious as the story of Xenu.

[RicktheRuler]

[ QUOTE ]
Hubbard describes "how 'Teegeeack' (Earth) came to be populated 75 million years ago by 'thetans' (souls) when the evil ruler Xenu of the Galactic Federation cast them into volcanos and blew them up with a hydrogen bomb to solve his local overpopulation problems."

http://www.mystae.com/streams/gnosis/otiii.html

WTF, I knew scientology was stupid but I didn't know it was that stupid. Man Tom Cruise really must be a looney.

[/ QUOTE ]

LMFAO, seriously. I am so interested in learning more about this now. I never really paid any attention to it, assuming if was sort of a fad. But man, people really BUY into this stuff?

[Blarg]

Yeah, it's not as if God should be surprised or something. He made him gay in the first place and knew exactly what he was going to do all along. Seems like a stupid exercise from start to finish.

Not that I've read the Old Testament either, just responding to your post.

[[censored]]

I always thought sodom and gomorrah was one of the coolest biblical stories, without dealing with its plausibility.

I don't recall the gay Angel though.

[Blarg]

It was Michael Jackson, who was sent down to save us all. But we were too corrupt.

[A_C_Slater]

We're all brainwashed in some way. We don't even know what it is we don't know.

"Everything you think and feel is a lie" --- Lao Tzu

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of the stories in the bible really happened. A lot of the stuff is based in fact. The story about Joseph and his coat of many colors is true and there are tons of artifacts to back it up. There is proof that moses existed. You can go on and on.

[/ QUOTE ]

The question of what "really happened" and what is myth and imagination, is _so_ complicated, with regard to any known religion (and its main figures), that no one will ever be able to say anything along the lines of what you're saying above.

For instance, there aren't any proofs that moses existed, because it's impossible to prove such a thing. All you can probably say is that there was such a leader, of a certain tribe, or maybe a few leaders, who along the years became to be known as that _one_ mythological leader, who maybe did such and such things and maybe not, some is imagination, some is history, or some combination of the two, etc etc etc. It's really an endless topic, that people (mainly in the academia) spend their lives searching and investigating.

Of course, I agree that still it is very different from the beliefs of the Scientologists: their mythology is 100% pure imagination and 0% what you might call history, and there isn't any point in even trying to see how much of it is truth. However, the core of pure imagination, that exists in any religion, is not different, whether you are talking about Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Scientology, or whatever.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
It's just as plausible to me that life on Earth was created by volcanoes, nukes, and aliens as it was all made by an invisible man in the sky.

That is, very unplausible.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's about as plausible as many of Steven Hawkings theories. To be honest, I find many pure atheists just as close minded as fanatic zealots. The truth is we don't know how the earth was made. To claim otherwise is to start a religion yourself. Even if you "think" you are scientific by doing so, you're not.


When it comes to the catholic religion, or any ancient religion, as long as a significant amount of it is based in fact I'm not going to knock the religion as a whole. Humans are notorious for embellishing stories. They are also notorious for screwing up a story told by whispering from ear to ear around a campfire. Now, try handing down a story for thousands of years. Given that, it's amazing how much of the Bible is historically true.

As for the old testament and many of the crazier stories, well you are missing the point. Some religions won't let you eat pork. Some say this was stupid, others say it was very logical back when the didn't have refrigeration. A lot of religion was written simply to change human behavior and it worked.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]

You've obviously never read the old testament.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an incredibly stupid comment. I highly doubt you've read the old testament since the very post of mine you quoted references a story in the old testament.

[ QUOTE ]
I think god sending an angel down to test the homesexuality of a man, a test the man fails, and is then punished by having firery rain fall on and destroy his town is equally as ridiculious as the story of Xenu.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't. According to darwinism homosexuality is a catastrophic defect. Back in the day, stories like this served their purpose very well. For a multitude of reasons incest, homosexuality, and polygomy were bad for ancient society as a whole. Whether or not it applies to current society is obviously debated by many.

[Blarg]

No, there are fundamental differences between thinking logically and using the scientific method and merely believing things.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
No, there are fundamental differences between thinking logically and using the scientific method and merely believing things.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. However, it was the best explanation they had back then (and one that we still can't prove false) and people wanted answers. The number one goal of religion is to change behavior and not to explain why. It served it's purpose.

[sexdrugsmoney]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but any Christian who says that they're wacko because of the Xenu thing is a hypocrite.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh I disagree. A lot of the stories in the bible really happened. A lot of the stuff is based in fact. The story about Joseph and his coat of many colors is true and there are tons of artifacts to back it up. There is proof that moses existed. You can go on and on.

Yes it's true that a lot of the stuff in the bible is out there but that is going to happen with a book that was slapped together from many independent writings from many different people thousands of years ago.

I don't know that much about scientology so maybe I should keep my mouth shut. Still, it gives the wrong impression.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've obviously never read the old testament. I think god sending an angel down to test the homesexuality of a man, a test the man fails, and is then punished by having firery rain fall on and destroy his town is equally as ridiculious as the story of Xenu.

[/ QUOTE ]

IIRC That angel wasn't sent to test any homosexuals, they (the two angels) were staying in Sodom (or Gomorah) because Lot and his Wife was there and the homosexual residents of the town wanted to SIITPS.

You can't blame God really, I mean he's got a reputation to protect. When you send your employees out to do your bidding and people try to [censored] em in the ass ... you got to keep it gangsta. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
IIRC That angel wasn't sent to test any homosexuals, they (the two angels) were staying in Sodom (or Gomorah) because Lot and his Wife was there and the homosexual residents of the town wanted to SIITPS.

You can't blame God really, I mean he's got a reputation to protect. When you send your employees out to do your bidding and people try to [censored] em in the ass ... you got to keep it gangsta.

[/ QUOTE ]

Although I wouldnt have phrased it quite the same, you are correct. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Made me laugh though. Ni han. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
We're all brainwashed in some way. We don't even know what it is we don't know.

"Everything you think and feel is a lie" --- Lao Tzu

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite true. We'll even kill and die for our arbitrary beliefs.

[KingOtter]

[ QUOTE ]

The truth is we don't know how the earth was made.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well... this is overplayed a bit... (not that the bible/christian summaries weren't overplayed, either).

We have a pretty durn good idea how planets are formed. We look out our window and we can see it happening out there, pretty much.

The universe, however... is another story...

KO

[KingOtter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We're all brainwashed in some way. We don't even know what it is we don't know.

"Everything you think and feel is a lie" --- Lao Tzu

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite true. We'll even kill and die for our arbitrary beliefs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Scary how many people are quite willing to die for something that somebody else convinced them about. Look 9/11, for instance. Osama wanted something, so he convinced a bunch of people to die for him.

I guess you could say the same for America... but I actually think we're on the right side of this stuff, so I'll defend that.

KO

[KingOtter]

[ QUOTE ]

LMFAO, seriously. I am so interested in learning more about this now. I never really paid any attention to it, assuming if was sort of a fad. But man, people really BUY into this stuff?

[/ QUOTE ]

They have to reach a certain 'level' before they hear ANY of this. Before that it is all kind of hinted at and vague... 'a horrible occurrence xx million years ago', etc. It's only since people have been deprogrammed and rescued that this stuff comes out and is on the net.

KO

[Zygote]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IIRC That angel wasn't sent to test any homosexuals, they (the two angels) were staying in Sodom (or Gomorah) because Lot and his Wife was there and the homosexual residents of the town wanted to SIITPS.

You can't blame God really, I mean he's got a reputation to protect. When you send your employees out to do your bidding and people try to [censored] em in the ass ... you got to keep it gangsta.

[/ QUOTE ]

Although I wouldnt have phrased it quite the same, you are correct. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Made me laugh though. Ni han. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

made me laugh 2

[Zygote]

[ QUOTE ]
This is an incredibly stupid comment. I highly doubt you've read the old testament since the very post of mine you quoted references a story in the old testament.


[/ QUOTE ]

you honor my words by giving them too much meaning.

[ QUOTE ]


I don't. According to darwinism homosexuality is a catastrophic defect. Back in the day, stories like this served their purpose very well. For a multitude of reasons incest, homosexuality, and polygomy were bad for ancient society as a whole. Whether or not it applies to current society is obviously debated by many.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you so sure these things were bad back then and so unsure about them in current times?

More importantly, why was polygomy bad? Aside, if homosexuality was bad, according to darwinism, then, the inabilitiy of that breed to survive should end the supposed plague rather than a stupid story?

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
Like how could you POSSIBLY believe that crazy Xenu story?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's on the list. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif


What I really want to know is, why doesn't anyone confront Cruise et. al. with this totally crazy loony bin stuff on one of these interview shows? Look at the mileage and exposure you get from one tiny little rant about psychiatry. Lauer would be immortalized if he got Cruise to say "Yes, I believe invisible 'body thetans' that were blown up in volcanos with H-bombs by the galactic ruler Xenu are clinging to me right now as we speak."

eastbay

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you so sure these things were bad back then and so unsure about them in current times? More importantly, why was polygomy bad?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do I really need to compare the technology as well as the needs of a family 2,000-3,000 years ago with the present day? Or are you just trolling? Its not that hard to come up with a dozen reasons. Many of those reasons don't apply today.

[ QUOTE ]
Aside, if homosexuality was bad, according to darwinism, then, the inabilitiy of that breed to survive should end the supposed plague rather than a stupid story?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not true. Darwinism if much more complex than a simple survival of the fittest. I don't have time to explain it but "origin of species" chapter 5 "laws of variation" should do you well.

I really don't have time for this.... work to do.

[Zygote]

[ QUOTE ]
Do I really need to compare the needs of a family 2,000-3,000 years ago with the present day? Or are you just trolling? It not that hard to come up with a dozen reasons. Many of those reasons don't apply today.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do need to compare them if you make the claim that they are different and i call you out on that claim. Well i suppose you don't need to, but that would be standard.

[krazyace5]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think Scientologists can only have limited contact to the 'real' world.. which starts after they attain the 'clear' status.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true for Scientologists, and cults in general.

It's also one of the dirty secrets we don't want to admit about established religions, too. Or even clubs in general. One of the ways they promote cohesion among members is by denigrating, at least implicitly, outsiders or non-members. And it's very often not merely implicit. There's more than mere welcome in inundating new initiates with activities and assigning them "study buddies," etc. It's not enough that the new adherent bring himself to the club or religion, no matter how fully; he must also exclude things other, which goes hand in hand with devaluing them.

That's one of the saddest things about everything from trying to hang with the popular crowd in school to joining a religion or even getting an advanced degree; so often doing so is not constructed as a way to add to yourself, but also as a way to subtract from yourself, in ways including the negative ones. New believers or the newly promoted often disdain or purport to disdain things and people they enjoy, in a way that makes their lives and souls lesser. Whether it's the daughter who rejects her family because they're not "clear" or the man whose degree turns him into a newly minted jackass, everyone is made the lesser, and healthy relations with others are damaged rather than augmented. Which is especially sadly ironic considering the supposed purpose of gaining knowledge, wisdom, or religious insight would seem to be the broadening of the person rather than his isolation and shutting down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like Amway/Quixstar, lol.

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
VERSION 1 : 'Teegeeack' (Earth) came to be populated 75 million years ago by 'thetans' (souls) when the evil ruler Xenu of the Galactic Federation cast them into volcanos and blew them up with a hydrogen bomb to solve his local overpopulation problems."

[/ QUOTE ]




[ QUOTE ]
VERSION 2 : 'Gaia' (Earth) came to be 10,000 years ago when God created it in seven (7) days. [The ratio of 1 cosmos per 7 Earth days is still the apex of godly productivity.] God created originally only two persons, Adam and Eve, from whose incestuous offspring all subsequent humans originate."

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell me how to pick the loony version among them. Just tell me.

[The Dude]

Are you serious? Are you really that inable to come up with enough examples on your own that you need somebody to explain the concept to you?

Isrealites were commanded not to touch the dead. People with certain types of illnesses and symptoms were to be quarantined. Why? Not because it's wrong to touch dead bodies or be around sick people, it was for their protection. Does that mean it's wrong to touch a dead body today? No, but that commandment served a very good purpose at the time.

Pick any one of a hundred commandments God gave the Israelites, and you can usually very easily find a logical reason why it was a good thing for the society. Some of those commandments are still good for our society (do not kill), others are no longer necessary (do not eat pork). Knowing the difference can at times be tricky, since God doesn't often explain why he gave the commandments.

The issue of homosexuality is one such issue.

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
since God doesn't often explain why he gave the commandments.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, the Biblical God pretty much never explains why he gave any commandment. And according to tradition, there are basically 613 such commandments.

To the other points you make, well many times you can find the practical reason behind certain commandments, but in many cases it is very very difficult to find any logical reason. But you can always just assume that some (if not a big majority) of the commandments are simply there in order to seperate this particular group of people from other groups, i.e, to define the group.

[klagett]

omg wtf... science, math, and philosophy please!!!!!

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
VERSION 1 : 'Teegeeack' (Earth) came to be populated 75 million years ago by 'thetans' (souls) when the evil ruler Xenu of the Galactic Federation cast them into volcanos and blew them up with a hydrogen bomb to solve his local overpopulation problems."

[/ QUOTE ]




[ QUOTE ]
VERSION 2 : 'Gaia' (Earth) came to be 10,000 years ago when God created it in seven (7) days. [The ratio of 1 cosmos per 7 Earth days is still the apex of godly productivity.] God created originally only two persons, Adam and Eve, from whose incestuous offspring all subsequent humans originate."

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell me how to pick the loony version among them. Just tell me.

[/ QUOTE ]

In example two you left out the part about the talking snake in the tree. IMHO, the talking snake makes the latter example the loonier of the two. /images/graemlins/smile.gif