Back at the $109s!!!! [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

View Full Version : Back at the $109s!!!!

kyro

07-03-2005, 12:51 PM

Two consecutive hands that I had no idea how to go about. No reads.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP1 (t1275)
Hero (t975)
MP3 (t1990)
CO (t960)
Button (t915)
SB (t850)
BB (t1200)
UTG (t180)
UTG+1 (t715)
UTG+2 (t940)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls t30, 3 folds, Hero raises to t150, 2 folds, Button calls t150, SB calls t135, 1 fold, UTG folds.

Flop: (t510) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero ???

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+2 (t1275)
Hero (t825)
MP2 (t1990)
MP3 (t960)
CO (t1725)
Button (t250)
SB (t1170)
BB (t150)
UTG (t715)
UTG+1 (t940)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t60, UTG+2 calls t60, Hero raises to t250, 6 folds, UTG+1 calls t190, UTG+2 calls t190.

Flop: (t795) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets t350, Hero ???

JayKon

07-03-2005, 01:08 PM

My answers depend on my read of the players, however:

Hand #1: bet pot. I need to know where I am.

Hand #2: fold. Looks a lot like TPTK.

How had these guys been playing? How agressive were they? what have they shown?

These are questions you should have been asking at the $20 level - way before sitting in a $100 SnG.

kyro

07-03-2005, 01:17 PM

I took a few notes on a few players. But when you 4table and have ADD you can't get pinpoint reads on a multitude of players. It was playing like a typical $109 from what I remember.

bkbluedevil

07-03-2005, 01:19 PM

I think betting the pot in hand one is awful. I like checking. If you bet you will only get action from hands taht are ahead (likely) so check and see what developes on the turn. If you are gonig to bet betting 1/2 the pot accomplishes the same as betting the full pot since there are zero draws out. BTW I love the condescending reply from the other poster. Come on man lighten up.

Moonsugar

07-03-2005, 01:23 PM

1 check
2 fold

kyro

07-03-2005, 01:32 PM

I checked the first hand.

[ QUOTE ]
Two consecutive hands that I had no idea how to go about. No reads.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP1 (t1275)
Hero (t975)
MP3 (t1990)
CO (t960)
Button (t915)
SB (t850)
BB (t1200)
UTG (t180)
UTG+1 (t715)
UTG+2 (t940)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls t30, 3 folds, Hero raises to t150, 2 folds, Button calls t150, SB calls t135, 1 fold, UTG folds.

Flop: (t510) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets t150, SB calls t150, Hero???

[/ QUOTE ]

augie00

07-03-2005, 01:35 PM

Hand 1: check/fold

Hand 2: fold

bkbluedevil

07-03-2005, 01:42 PM

That's tough. I fold because of the other guy already calling. If you are ahead here I'd expect to win a pot the size it is now. If you are behind I'd explect a large river bet. So fold, but I'd be curious what Adanthar and others would do.

jcm4ccc

07-03-2005, 01:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My answers depend on my read of the players, however:

Hand #1: bet pot. I need to know where I am.

Hand #2: fold. Looks a lot like TPTK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand #1: Betting the pot is not a terrible idea (not a great idea, either), but the reasoning is awful. To "know where you are" is ridiculous. The pot is 510. You have about 700-800 chips. A pot-sized bet is a pot committed bet. You're not going to find out "where you are". You will already be there, with all your chips.

You need to decide if you are going to fold this hand, or play this hand to the end. If you decide to play this, I would recommend check/calling to the river. The reason is that the person who is ahead on the flop will almost certainly be ahead on the river. In other words, you don't need to bet this to protect against somebody outdrawing you on the turn or river. The person who is ahead on the flop is the person who is going to win this pot. Check/calling may allow you to save some chips for the miracle comeback if you are not that person.

Hand #2 I would fold.

suited_ace

07-03-2005, 01:46 PM

Hand #1: Check behind.

Hand #2: Fold.

bkbluedevil

07-03-2005, 01:50 PM

JCM,

Good point about the stack sizes, but even if stacks were deeper I think a pot sized bet is bad. The stacks sizes make it worse. What do you think after looking at the turn action?

Newt_Buggs

07-03-2005, 02:13 PM

hand 1: I think that checking the flop is a good idea, and with a caller it looks like you have to fold. It would definitly be tricky if the other guy had folded though

hand 2 looks like a clear fold to me

JayKon

07-03-2005, 02:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #1: Betting the pot is not a terrible idea (not a great idea, either), but the reasoning is awful. To "know where you are" is ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I've been slapped around enough. My bet size was just plane wrong. betting about $200 does do the same thing and you're not pot comitted.

kyro

07-03-2005, 02:25 PM

I folded to the t150 flop bet by the button in Hand #1. If SB had folded, I really would have been torn on what to do, but SB calling cemented my fold. I assumed he had something like AK or AQ.

Nope. Button had QQ and SB had....Q/images/graemlins/heart.gifJ/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Yes, you read that right. They exist at the $109s!!!

Second hand, we both folded so I have no idea what UTG+2 had, but I'm happy with how I played it. I have played some very good SNG-style poker since jumping up to the $109s and I'm running well also.

JayKon

07-03-2005, 02:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I folded to the t150 flop bet by the button in Hand #1. If SB had folded, I really would have been torn on what to do, but SB calling cemented my fold. I assumed he had something like AK or AQ.

Nope. Button had QQ and SB had....Q/images/graemlins/heart.gifJ/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Yes, you read that right. They exist at the $109s!!!

Second hand, we both folded so I have no idea what UTG+2 had, but I'm happy with how I played it. I have played some very good SNG-style poker since jumping up to the $109s and I'm running well also.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my precise reason for leading out here. Since I was the agressor preflop and it is a scary board, I want to take my shot at winning the pot right here. Now I'm humbled by those that said a pot sized bet was wrong and on reflection, I agree. However, a bet of a good % of the pot is correct.

People learn very quickly that I will reraise them when I've been the agressor and have the goods most of the time, so unless the QQ was just plain crazy (which is possible) I'm going to win.

All that said, I'm currently maxing at the $20 NL SnG, but doing well.

AA suited

07-04-2005, 10:45 AM

hand1:
why did you raise 5bb instead of the normal 3bb? with KK, you want action preflop. and if it was a 3bb raise preflop, a 1/2pot bet to find out where you are wouldnt have made you pot committed.

hand2:
he's betting 1/2pot on a rainbow flop into the preflop raiser. if he had the cards, i would think someone on the 109's would check/raise instead. unfortunately, calling would make you pot committed. fold.

if you did have the chips, i would call and see what he does on the turn. (This could be a leak in my game though. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif)

Unarmed

07-04-2005, 10:53 AM

Hand 1 - Check the flop. I'm not getting away from this but I want their aggression working against them. Check/call flop, hope for a bet that pot commits smaller PPs, and get your money in on the turn.

Hand 2 - Easy fold for me. This is the kind of flop that rates to have hit one of the two PF raisers' hard and the other joker bets into the field. Run.