Can I not double this guy up?

[JayKon]

This is the 8th hand of a one table $20 SnG.

Though I've been playing tight, I've had a very good run of cards and have played and won 4 (AA, KK, AK & AQs) of the pots only showing the AA's - so I look LAG.

UTG is unknown and hasn't played a hand yet.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t760)
UTG (t775)
UTG+1 (t515)
MP1 (t1020)
MP2 (t775)
CO (t850)
Hero (t2610)
SB (t695)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t60</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Hero calls t60, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

I was going to raise, but I had a feeling UTG was strong and wanted to see the flop cheap. I think this was my only place I could fold. I'm also thinking I should have raised to see where I was, not sure.

Flop: (t142.50) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets t100</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t200</font>, UTG calls t100.

This raise was phat phingers. I was checking the 'bet pot' and the action wen't too fast and I ended up entering a simple raise.

Turn: (t542.50) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

(I decided to put him allin somehow forgetting my initial read)
UTG checks. Hero bets [515]. UTG is all-In [515]

River: (t542.50) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: t542.50

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
UTG has Kd Ks (one pair, kings).
Hero has Jc Ad (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: UTG wins t542.50.

Note: I busted him at level 6</font>

[Karak567]

Fold preflop.

I am sorry, but calling a 4x BB raise with AJ is not playing tight.

That is playing loose.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop.

I am sorry, but calling a 4x BB raise with AJ is not playing tight.

That is playing loose.

[/ QUOTE ]

What Karak means to say is AJ is too easily dominated to be playing for a raise. You will get stacked too often.

[Karak567]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop.

I am sorry, but calling a 4x BB raise with AJ is not playing tight.

That is playing loose.

[/ QUOTE ]


What Karak means to say is AJ is too easily dominated to be playing for a raise. You will get stacked too often.

[/ QUOTE ]

hehe

[JayKon]

Well, I did say "been", however, your point is well taken. I was, in fact, viewing the AJo as a "good" hand.

Given strictly tight, early play, I see a fold was correct. However, since I played the hand, I'm wondering if a raise would have been correct to see where I was. If he reraises I think I can fold.

On a side note, I did walk away for three hands after that and got my head back on and wen't on to win. I wonder if that hand set my table image? (BTW, skill got me to the final 3, luck won it).

[Karak567]

This hand really proves WHY you should fold AJ pre-flop. Because you will run into KK, QQ, JJ, AA, AQ and AK far too often for it to be profitable to play into a raise. Plus you have no idea where you are. Whereas if you had raised, he would have re-raised you most likely and you could have some clue.

However I advocate just mucking AJ in the early levels of the game. The only way I play it is if there are a decent number of people in the pot and I am on the button and can just limp or if it is folded to me in the CO or the button, where I might raise or might fold.

You avoid getting stacked by just folding pre-flop. Once you saw the flop, you had to give him your chips. What other kind of flop are you looking for that you will hit often? A boat, a straight? You don't play AJ for boat or straight value...

Another issue "I was checking the 'bet pot'." Don't do that. It often will get you into situations like you were in and can also be a tell of a standard bread and butter TPTK bet. I like leading out for 1/2 - 3/4 of the pot here too, with TPTK.

However, I just think folding preflop solves all your problems in this hand. This flop is monotone enough that you really can't lay it down post flop.

[JayKon]

[ QUOTE ]
This hand really proves WHY you should fold AJ pre-flop. Because you will run into KK, QQ, JJ, AA, AQ and AK far too often for it to be profitable to play into a raise. Plus you have no idea where you are. Whereas if you had raised, he would have re-raised you most likely and you could have some clue.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sold.

...

[ QUOTE ]

Another issue "I was checking the 'bet pot'." Don't do that. It often will get you into situations like you were in and can also be a tell of a standard bread and butter TPTK bet. I like leading out for 1/2 - 3/4 of the pot here too, with TPTK.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the most part, I agree and do, in fack bet TPTK by betting about half the pot. However, I also play the $5-$20 NLHE SnG's and have found the insta-bet option effective at generating bad calls and slowing the other players down.

[Karak567]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This hand really proves WHY you should fold AJ pre-flop. Because you will run into KK, QQ, JJ, AA, AQ and AK far too often for it to be profitable to play into a raise. Plus you have no idea where you are. Whereas if you had raised, he would have re-raised you most likely and you could have some clue.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sold.

...

[ QUOTE ]

Another issue "I was checking the 'bet pot'." Don't do that. It often will get you into situations like you were in and can also be a tell of a standard bread and butter TPTK bet. I like leading out for 1/2 - 3/4 of the pot here too, with TPTK.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the most part, I agree and do, in fack bet TPTK by betting about half the pot. However, I also play the $5-$20 NLHE SnG's and have found the insta-bet option effective at generating bad calls and slowing the other players down.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I have KK and I see you insta-betting. I know right away you are being overly aggressive and you want me out of this pot. I smooth call here with KK, fully expecting you to push the turn.

If I have a weak hand, I re-raise you fully expecting you to fold. Insta-bet unnecessarily drops the disguise on why you are being aggressive.

[bkbluedevil]

Let me get this straight everyone in here is really advocating folding AJ when the action has been passed to you on the button. Gee I hate playing the best hand at the table with position. Folding here is absolutly awful. Learn to play on the flop.

[Karak567]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me get this straight everyone in here is really advocating folding AJ when the action has been passed to you on the button. Gee I hate playing the best hand at the table with position. Folding here is absolutly awful. Learn to play on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me get this straight everyone in here is really advocating folding AJ when the action has been passed to you on the button. Gee I hate playing the best hand at the table with position. Folding here is absolutly awful. Learn to play on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

You did see the EP raise, right?

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Let me get this straight everyone in here is really advocating folding AJ when the action has been passed to you on the button. Gee I hate playing the best hand at the table with position. Folding here is absolutly awful. Learn to play on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

You did see the EP raise, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

wait, so is that where that guy who took all my chips postflop came from?

i'm sorry. that was uncalled for. i'll go back to my hole now.

[bkbluedevil]

Ha no, totally misread the thing, yea you guys are right, you can't call an EP raise with this hand. (Lowers head) Sorry I'm illiterate and retarded.

[11t]

All I can say is don't call raises with AJos during the first few levels.

I'd also be far more inclined to not get involved with your table image (although very few players pay attention to such things at the 22) and your stack size. I call with AK/Q and fold if I miss the flop but I still don't get involved with AJ.

I dunno, I tend to use the first few levels to try to accumulate chips for bubble aggression and once I have a sizeable stack I tend to avoid more marginal situations.

This is very very marginal.

Also, just say its readless. If you really felt that UTG was strong thats even more of an excuse to fold and not try to see a flop cheaply.

If I see a flop I'd probably put him in but I'd kick myself when he flipped over KK for throwing my chips away.

[11t]

No such thing as luck /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Benholio]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me get this straight everyone in here is really advocating folding AJ when the action has been passed to you on the button. Gee I hate playing the best hand at the table with position. Folding here is absolutly awful. Learn to play on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Think you stumbled into the wrong forum. Play money strategy is that way. ----&gt;

[JayKon]

[ QUOTE ]
If I see a flop I'd probably put him in but I'd kick myself when he flipped over KK for throwing my chips away.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hence the post.

[JayKon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Let me get this straight everyone in here is really advocating folding AJ when the action has been passed to you on the button. Gee I hate playing the best hand at the table with position. Folding here is absolutly awful. Learn to play on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Think you stumbled into the wrong forum. Play money strategy is that way. ----&gt;

[/ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[freemoney]

STOP WITH HORRIBLEEEEEEEE ADVICE, THIS IS SUCH AN EASY FOLD ITS SICK

[11t]

Did you ever ask yourself, "What exactly is he calling my re-raise with here?"

I don't mind the re-raise on the flop but definitely excercise pot control and check behind on the turn and call a push on the river.

[JayKon]

[ QUOTE ]
Did you ever ask yourself, "What exactly is he calling my re-raise with here?"

I don't mind the re-raise on the flop but definitely excercise pot control and check behind on the turn and call a push on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, I think you missed a bit. Part of the problem with this hand (besides playing it /images/graemlins/tongue.gif) was that fact that I didn't reraise preflop.

[11t]

I meant reraising him on the flop.

Reraising him preflop is the worst idea ever.

[Rickyroodido]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Did you ever ask yourself, "What exactly is he calling my re-raise with here?"

I don't mind the re-raise on the flop but definitely excercise pot control and check behind on the turn and call a push on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, I think you missed a bit. Part of the problem with this hand (besides playing it /images/graemlins/tongue.gif) was that fact that I didn't reraise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting... What would a call, on your reraise, tell you?

[11t]

From a good player that is a sign you are way behind and its time to muck

[JayKon]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting... What would a call, on your reraise, tell you?

[/ QUOTE ]

A Call and I put him on a middle pocket pair (say TT-77), Axs, AKo, AQany. A raise and I put him on AA-QQ, AKs. Remember, this is a $20+2 SnG.

This is of course pre-post. I don't think I'll hop another raise w/ AJo in the early stages of a tourney again.

As the SnG played out, this guy proved to be very LAG and his folding the 1st 7 hands was a fluke.

[chumdawg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Let me get this straight everyone in here is really advocating folding AJ when the action has been passed to you on the button. Gee I hate playing the best hand at the table with position. Folding here is absolutly awful. Learn to play on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Think you stumbled into the wrong forum. Play money strategy is that way. ----&gt;

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he was responding to Karak's statement that if it were folded to his AJ on the button he "might raise or might fold." You really think it's treating your chips like play money to take on the blinds only, with position, with AJ? Goodness gracious, that's tight. I hope you have other things to keep you occupied while you are "playing poker."