Improving ones poker play with SnGs?

[Psy_Mike]

A friend of mine on another forum asked a pro player about how the pros feel about SnGs and how they are seen upon from the pro players.

He got the response that there is a belief that the SnGs will grow much tougher soon at higher stake SnGs, but if he wants to take poker seriously he should focus on CGs, since it requires more skill and also has potentially more money to harvest.

I've been thinking a while about SnGs vs CGs as many have. I simply love SnGs, but I still want to play the poker that requires most skill since I'm in a state where I want to improve and evolve my poker play. And this gets me a bit worried. That I'm sort of... Wasting my time with SnGs, if you know how I mean.

I recently read an article by Daniel Negreanu where he also says he's not a big fan of NL tourneys due to the all-in frenzy. He claims the difference between a bad player and a pro player becomes much lesser when it comes to NL tourney play. He also thinks it would be better if the huge events were played as PL and not NL due to this fact.

What is your thought on the subject? Do you think SnGs are a... lesser form of poker? And easier form of poker so to speak. Do you play SnGs to evolve and improve your game or are you playing them because they are good money? Or both perhaps? Do you feel you're improving your game when playing SnGs or are you sort of "stuck", just grinding in cash?

One of my thoughts is to focus much on larger tourney with 100-300 entrants, and play SnGs in between these tourney. My thought of this would be to improve my final table play with the help of SnGs. A crazy idea, or would it possibly work?

Cheers /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ilikeaces]

A lot of what you said is true. SNG's on party dont take much "skill" if were talking postflop play. They take a lot of "skill" in knowing when to push and steal the blinds. They are all about timing. I dont really care whether or not its improving my game I am just in it for the money.

[sleech]

What does "CG" mean?

[r2b2]

I'm guessing Circle Game as opposed to Ring Game.

[Karak567]

[ QUOTE ]
What does "CG" mean?

[/ QUOTE ]

Cash game.

And I know pre-flop hand odds and inflection theory better than any cash game player I know IRL.

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]
And I know pre-flop hand odds and inflection theory better than any cash game player I know IRL.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dan Harrington says hi!

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think SnGs are a... lesser form of poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

There was a long thread on this very recently, called something like are SnGs really poker. Try the search function, or just scroll back through recent threads.

My answer to that question is that there is no supreme authority defining "real" poker, so it's all a matter of opinion.

The answer to the OP's question is that the best way to learn a particular form of poker is to play and study that form. Playing SnGs will help improve your cash game. Will you improve more if you play cash games instead? No doubt.

[Karak567]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think SnGs are a... lesser form of poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

There was a long thread on this very recently, called something like are SnGs really poker. Try the search function, or just scroll back through recent threads.

My answer to that question is that there is no supreme authority defining "real" poker, so it's all a matter of opinion.

The answer to the OP's question is that the best way to learn a particular form of poker is to play and study that form. Playing SnGs will help improve your cash game. Will you improve more if you play cash games instead? No doubt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I was the OP of that thread, if you want to search my history. I would do it for you, but I am lazy.

[Matt R.]

I think most of us play SNGs almost entirely for the money. It's a great way to make a given profit with a smaller bankroll than you need for an equivalent cash game -- at least I think this is the commonly held belief. Cash games certainly require much more skill overall, as there's simply zero post-flop play once you get 40 or so hands into an SNG. Okay, sometimes there is a little bit, but certainly nowhere near the amount in a cash game. I think the source of its huge profitability (at least at the lower levels) is the atrocious bubble and shortstacked play by your opponents. There's really no way of knowing proper SS/bubble strategy without a lot of experience playing with it, or putting a lot of thought and study into it. Most of the people you play with won't know what the heck they're doing in the most crucial point of a single table.

As far as your last question goes, I think SNG's will help your large multi-table tourney skills a lot because there will always be instances where shortstacked poker comes into play. SNGs are the best way to learn this.

[suited_ace]

If you want to really improve your game, you need to diversify. Play Stud, PLO, O8, Razz, etc. Playing a lot of LHE and PLHE will directly help your post-flop play, but understanding the different variants of poker does a great deal for you overall game.

[Psy_Mike]

[ QUOTE ]
If you want to really improve your game, you need to diversify. Play Stud, PLO, O8, Razz, etc. Playing a lot of LHE and PLHE will directly help your post-flop play, but understanding the different variants of poker does a great deal for you overall game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hear some people say this, but I can't quite understand why that is the case? Are there ways of thinking that the theories of Hold'em are missing? Are you sure this has nothing to do with simply gaining experience in poker overall?

[swiftrhett]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What does "CG" mean?

[/ QUOTE ]

Cash game.

And I know pre-flop hand odds and inflection theory better than any cash game player I know IRL.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is "inflection theory"?

[clutch]

.

[clutch]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you want to really improve your game, you need to diversify. Play Stud, PLO, O8, Razz, etc. Playing a lot of LHE and PLHE will directly help your post-flop play, but understanding the different variants of poker does a great deal for you overall game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hear some people say this, but I can't quite understand why that is the case? Are there ways of thinking that the theories of Hold'em are missing? Are you sure this has nothing to do with simply gaining experience in poker overall?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are correct. Playing 100% NL hold'em will of course make someone a better NL hold'em player faster than playing a bunch of other games.

People who say playing 7 stud hi/lo cash games, etc. will somehow improve your NL hold'em tourney game drive me nuts. Play more freakin' NL if that's where you wanna improve.

[jon462]

If you want to play better hold 'em I would definately recommend CG's. SNGs - especially party sngs, are a game onto themselves. I feel like a monkey - i have learned a very specific skill set, and kill the 20s and 30s on party. Yet I cant even beat the cash games on party, and they dont get any weaker online. How pathetic is that? I lost about 300 bucks trying to clear that stupid empire bonus recently. hahahaha. I can beat my home game, hahah, but thats only because of very weak players that I have played for awhile and know very well ( I didnt do well the first few times we played). Yet I am doing very well in the sngs - will prolly clear 3500 or so this month just on the 20s. So no - I dont feel like sngs are improving my game at all.

[otctrader]

SNG's are an oddity since you'll transition from a low-blind cash game approach early on to high blind ram & jam. The latter skillset is actually very important to extracting maximum +EV in late stages of multitable tournies where the escalation in prize money is huge and you can run over players not used to this level of aggression.

[Isura]

Learn them all. I played limit holdem ring games for a long time. Then I got into MTTs and SNGs for a bit. Went back to ring, and played a ton of short-handed (5-6 max) limit holdem. That really improved my overall poker game, and short-handed limit holdem is a blast. Back at SNGs now, but mainly only for the profit, and I play about a dozen MTTs a week too.

Becoming a better player is important, but enjoyement and profit are just as important IMO. SNGs are a nice low variance source of profit (compared to LHE atleast), and I it's a very relaxing and enjoyable form of poker for me. Poker is first and foremost a game of money, there's no inherent value in becoming a better player.