will the real terrorists please stand up?

[brad]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/02/04/jdl.bombplot.ap/index.html

[andyfox]

What do you mean by real terrorists?

[brad]

i just mean gee wiz white house admits they put out disinformation on possible terrorists attacks to boost image of bush/administration but no one publicizes a group plotting political assasinations because they are a protected minority group.

also certain 'right wing' groups, eg, gun rights groups, have been labelled 'nazi' and 'anti-semetic', when, ironically enough, the leader of the group in question was himself a jew!


anyway i can see the media taking a wait and see approach but once the guy pleads guilty or whatever and admits it, then i would think this would be front page headlines.

seriously, shouldnt they be labelled terrorists for plotting to assasinate a congressman?

[brad]

personally i think zionists give all jews a bad name.

[andyfox]

Do you have a link on the White House admitting they lied about possible terrorist attacks for PR purposes? I would think a move would be underfoot in Congress for impeachment.

The arrest of the JDL people was very big news here in L.A. Mr. Rubin's activities have been decried for years by the L.A. ADL and the L.A. Times covered the story extensively.

What is a protected minority group?

Who has labeled gun rights groups Nazis and anti-Semitic?

The JDL is a fringe group without a big membership. When Mr. Rubin died, it did make the front page here in L.A. One can hardly expect the other guy pleading guilty to be page one headline news during this week of the space shuttle tragedy and Bush's and Powell's speeches. It's a minor story under any circumstances.

They have always been labeled as terrorists by many civic and religious groups here in L.A. The description has always seemed apt to me.

[John Ho]

Yes, their leader is Irv Rubin who was also arrested in this plot. According to who you listen to he either committed suicide in prison or was murdered by the government. It is amazing that there has been so little press coverage of the plot to kill the Arab congressman (Darryl Issa).

On the flip side, the JDL has been a fringe group for a long time and the mainstream Jewish organizations do not support them. The same, however, can be said for Muslims. The press and our government only talk about the Muslim extremists but rarely mention the mainstream. And you rarely hear about the Zionist extremists who inflame the Arab tensions.

One wonders why we commit so much in U.S. time, money, and lives to supporting Israel at the expense of our relations with Arabs. Israel has done a poor job reigning in their religious fanatics but criticize the Arabs for not controlling theirs. They are all out of control over there.

I fail to see why we support one side over the other. It would seem in our best interests to be impartial.

[andyfox]

What are Zionists? Zionism was the movement to establish a country for the Jews in Palestine. That movement succeeded. There are no more Zionists. There are Jews and there are Israelis. Calling someone a Zionist makes about as much sense as calling someone a Whig or a Mugwump.

I have been very critical, on this forum, of the policies of the early and later Zionists, and of the state of Israel. I believe the Palestinians received, and continue to receive, a raw deal from the Zionist movement and from Israel.

Perhaps I'm missing your point.

[brad]

'Do you have a link on the White House admitting they lied about possible terrorist attacks for PR purposes'

yes this was in a mainstream newspaper, although maybe it was like the washington post or something. (somebody told me thats a real rag i dont know).

i can look for it if you want but im 100% sure i read it although im not 100% sure it was that cut and dried (ie, 'whitehouse lies for pr purposes') but as i remember it it was pretty cut and dried.

--

but my point is, can u imagine if someone linked to any arab group was plotting assassination of congressman? there would be editorials in all newspapers about jihad and how we need to invade (whatever country he was from or represented)

[brad]

'Perhaps I'm missing your point.'

just stirring up trouble i thought it was interesting.

remember pat buchanan was labelled racist for questioning our foreign policy relation to another country.

[andyfox]

I think he was called racist for his remarks in his book about Hitler and his anti-immigration remarks.

[brad]

well i know hes the least funny guy on the mcglauphlin (mcglocklen) group.

that woman democrat who always get cut off in mid sentence cracks me up the most.

BYE-BYE

heh

[andyfox]

No doubt an Arab extremist plot would get greater press coverage. The supposedly pro-Palestinian bent of the "liberal" U.S. media is a myth.

[andyfox]

Well, one could make a good case for all woman Democrats getting cut off in mid-sentence. We could start with Feinstein and Pelosi for starters. They give Democrats a bad name. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[John Ho]

What about the settlers in the occupied territories? Maybe you call them something else but calling them Zionists isn't far off base.

For example, if there was no Israel and we decided to create one measuring one square block in Palestine would there no longer be Zionists? Does the fact that a nation called Israel exists mean they are satisfied with what they have? The whole tenet is Zionism is the belief that certain lands are God given to the Jews.

The Zionists aren't satisfied yet. Those are the extremists, though. This does not go for all Jews or Israelis.

[John Ho]

Well, most of the press is liberal in general. But they at least try to objective sometimes unlike Fox News. But clearly they are pro-Israel. Jews are powerful in the Democratic party.

[andyfox]

It is usually only those who have an axe to grind who use the term "Zionists." For example, Saddam Hussein has spoken about the Americans and the Zionists being out to get him. He doesn't mean Zionists; he means the Israelis or the Jews. He uses the word Zionists to try to delegitimize the state of Israel.

The whole tenet of Zionism was not that God gave the land to the Jews. There was discussion at the early Zionist colonists of using Uganda as a homeland. Golda Meir, who claimed there were no Palestinians, was an atheist. Zionism claimed that the Jews were a nation, a people, and that their historical homeland was in Zion, i.e., Palestine.

[KDF]

Though dated Feb.4 , the story itself is old news. The arrest occurred in 2001 if you bothered to read it. This incident is not terrorism. It is nothing more that a means to some psycho-political end. There are specific targets involved. Terrorism involves no specific target(s) only general mass-killing. I do not endorse such things nor defend the criminals behind the activity. I will say that one isolated incident compared with the litany of REAL terrorism committed by those in the name of islam is a weak means to try an conjure up controversy. Perhaps better time is spent learning history and factual reality, not studying the fine art of sensationalism and ‘anti-anything’ nonsense.

[brad]

no he just pleaded guilty

[brad]

using definitiom of terrorism in p.a.t.r.i.o.t. act

[hudini36]

This is typical stereotyping of the Jews by the behavior of one indivdiual. Prejudiced people make this mistake all the time. Perhaps the "real" terrorists are individuals, not entire ethnic groups.

[Vehn]

I don't care about this pointless bickering and penis waving, but does anyone else think it was kinda a weird choice to use the word "Zion" for the name of the last human city in The Matrix?

[Zeno]

Zion is sometimes used as a synonym for the "City of God". Sometimes this means Jerusalem or sometimes a sacred place or even "heaven". See Isaiah in the Old Testment for good examples.



Zion, originally the name of the Jebusite stronghold at Jerusalem captured by David (II Samuel). This was probably on the southern part of the eastern hill. Above it was built the Temple and later the name was extended to the whole hill. Finally it became a synonym for the city of Jerusalem, whose inhabitants are personified as "the daughter of Zion". - So says the Encyclopaedia Britannica.


The word Zion invokes great meaning to some people for religious and historical reasons. Just like the word Babylon.

That is why Zion is the name of the city in, The Matrix.

-Zeno

[brad]

uh derr, thats my point.

but remember, cause we dont lock our cockpit doors we are now in a global fight against islam