Online gambling in Indiana = Class D Felony ??

[KKbluff]

As of July 1st 2005, Indiana has banned online gambling. I’m not sure exactly how they plan to enforce this, or how it will affect those of us already with online poker/casino accounts…
I do know that it is now a class D felony if your caught, and reading the IC Code it says something about Internet Service Providers.. So our ISP’s may start reporting us to the authorities, I really hope that this isn’t the case…

If anyone out there has more details on this new law that was passed please share what you know .


Here is a link to the new and revised gambling law:

http://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Laws/Indiana/internet-bill.htm

[Cactus Cactus]

wow, that is quite ironic because I thought that the laws were going the other way, with North Dakota being the first state to allow companies to operate online gaming

[signal]

This is a horrible development. It's so nice to live in the land of the 'free' (if we're still calling it that these days).

One thing, though. I quickly read yr link & it said that a written warning is provided to the offender to cease the 'illegal' activity. Thirty days are allowed for compliance it seems.

So you could probably just keep playing until you get that letter....

Very sad development....

[Bigdaddydvo]

Thank God I live in the "Kentucki" part of "Kentuckiana"

Oh well, at least there's Caesars and Belterra.

[o0mr_bill0o]

another reason i'm glad i spend the majority of my time in minnesota.

[wacki]

odds of them considering poker a game of skill?

BTW, sklasnky/mason better [censored] change his opinion on this [censored]. I don't want SSH screwing me in court.

"Gambling" means risking money or other property for gain, contingent in whole or in part upon lot, chance, or the operation of a gambling device; but it does not include participating in:

(1) bona fide contests of skill, speed, strength, or endurance in which awards are made only to entrants or the owners of entries; or

That has to include poker right?

[TheHammer24]

[ QUOTE ]
odds of them considering poker a game of skill?

BTW, sklasnky/mason better [censored] change his opinion on this [censored]. I don't want SSH screwing me in court.

"Gambling" means risking money or other property for gain, contingent in whole or in part upon lot, chance, or the operation of a gambling device; but it does not include participating in:

(1) bona fide contests of skill, speed, strength, or endurance in which awards are made only to entrants or the owners of entries; or

That has to include poker right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure the first chapter in SSHE says poker is gambling and you have to view as such. Believing otherwise is a fallacy.

[o0mr_bill0o]

looks like the info on the state webpage is out of date...

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure the first chapter in SSHE says poker is gambling and you have to view as such. Believing otherwise is a fallacy.

[/ QUOTE ]

The stock market is gambling. It's legal. Also, poker takes skill to win. This clause says games of skill are legal.

[Jordan]

california legalized poker precisely because it is a game of skill. the truth is that it is both a game of skill and gambling, and should therefore be excluded from the ban.

[wacki]

What is the best way to bitch to the politicians?

e-mail, phone?

[o0mr_bill0o]

looks like i was wrong. anyone know where we can find out who voted for this pile of shite? i know my representative relatively well, as she's a family friend, and if she voted for this thing i'm gonna have to give her an earfull.

[o0mr_bill0o]

okay, now i'm reading the bill. this doesn't apply to us. unless you're running an internet poker website from indiana. Note that everything referring to professional gambling says
"for profit". then you have to note the definition of "profit", which excludes "gain". In my reading of this bill, what we as online gamblers earn is "gain", and what the operator of the website earns is "profit".

[jrbick]

[ QUOTE ]
What is the best way to bitch to the politicians?

e-mail, phone?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd avoid email since it's easily avoided. Same with the phone. We need to organize as players and SERIOUSLY do something about this in EVERY state and in the Federal forum. I've voiced this in several other threads. This new development in IN may be what it takes.

I'm talking about petitions, public hearings, etc. And I don't mean just normal joe-shmoe players; I want authors from this publishing company to be a part of it since they are known as the "experts" in our field.

Mason Malmuth, David Sklansky, Ed Miller, Dan Harrington, Ray Zee, Ray B., Alan Schoonmaker, John Feeney, Lynne Loomis, Sylevester Suzuki, Dan Paymar, Donna Harris, and anyone else that I've forgotten and/or should be included in this list: HELP US CHANGE THE MIND OF THE GOVERNMENT! It is in YOUR best interest if you desire the "POKER MARKET" to remain as thriving as it is right now. THINK LONG TERM like you teach us to!

[o0mr_bill0o]

just noticed your location says b-town, for the time being at least - bloomington i presume? me too, when i'm not at school. do you, did you go to school here? drop me a PM or some such.

[KKbluff]

[ QUOTE ]
Sec. 2.
(a) A person who knowingly or intentionally engages in gambling commits unlawful gambling.

(b) Except as provided in subsection (c), unlawful gambling is a Class B misdemeanor.

(c) An operator who knowingly or intentionally uses the Internet to engage in unlawful gambling:

(1) in Indiana; or

(2) with a person located in Indiana; commits a Class D felony.


[/ QUOTE ]

If I'm reading this correctly we as players are commiting "unlawful gambling" - Class B misdemeanor. Gambling operators are commiting a Class D Felony.

[Mike Haven]

[ QUOTE ]
' "Gambling" means risking money ... for gain, contingent ... in part upon ... chance ... '


[/ QUOTE ]

Difficult to argue against.

[o0mr_bill0o]

[ QUOTE ]
odds of them considering poker a game of skill?

BTW, sklasnky/mason better [censored] change his opinion on this [censored]. I don't want SSH screwing me in court.

"Gambling" means risking money or other property for gain, contingent in whole or in part upon lot, chance, or the operation of a gambling device; but it does not include participating in:

(1) bona fide contests of skill, speed, strength, or endurance in which awards are made only to entrants or the owners of entries; or

That has to include poker right?

[/ QUOTE ]

it seems that would mean a poker tourney is okay, but a ring game is not.

[ttw22]

So how bad is a class B misdemeanor, then? I wonder if gamblers get the same 30 day warning that operators get.

[gila]

I wouldnt worry much about a class b mis., think parking ticket.

However, this blows. Things seem to be heading in the wrong direction.

[jrbick]

must be some sort of incremented fines/penalties for repeat offenders though, no?

[ttw22]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldnt worry much about a class b mis., think parking ticket.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure? I found this: http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:H_MLDqvqVlAJ:www.violenceresource.o rg/statute.pdf+indiana+class+b+misdemeanor&hl=en&clie nt=firefox-a

"Class B misdemeanor: Fine up to $1000 and up to 180 days in jail."

[Pokamastah]

USA sucks!

[2+2 wannabe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What is the best way to bitch to the politicians?

e-mail, phone?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd avoid email since it's easily avoided. Same with the phone. We need to organize as players and SERIOUSLY do something about this in EVERY state and in the Federal forum. I've voiced this in several other threads. This new development in IN may be what it takes.

I'm talking about petitions, public hearings, etc. And I don't mean just normal joe-shmoe players; I want authors from this publishing company to be a part of it since they are known as the "experts" in our field.

Mason Malmuth, David Sklansky, Ed Miller, Dan Harrington, Ray Zee, Ray B., Alan Schoonmaker, John Feeney, Lynne Loomis, Sylevester Suzuki, Dan Paymar, Donna Harris, and anyone else that I've forgotten and/or should be included in this list: HELP US CHANGE THE MIND OF THE GOVERNMENT! It is in YOUR best interest if you desire the "POKER MARKET" to remain as thriving as it is right now. THINK LONG TERM like you teach us to!

[/ QUOTE ]

wow erin brockovich settle down - maybe you should advocate for something more worthwhile

[tech]

The part of this law that pertains to individual gamblers has been on the books since the late 1970s. The new part only applies to operators.

[jrbick]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What is the best way to bitch to the politicians?

e-mail, phone?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd avoid email since it's easily avoided. Same with the phone. We need to organize as players and SERIOUSLY do something about this in EVERY state and in the Federal forum. I've voiced this in several other threads. This new development in IN may be what it takes.

I'm talking about petitions, public hearings, etc. And I don't mean just normal joe-shmoe players; I want authors from this publishing company to be a part of it since they are known as the "experts" in our field.

Mason Malmuth, David Sklansky, Ed Miller, Dan Harrington, Ray Zee, Ray B., Alan Schoonmaker, John Feeney, Lynne Loomis, Sylevester Suzuki, Dan Paymar, Donna Harris, and anyone else that I've forgotten and/or should be included in this list: HELP US CHANGE THE MIND OF THE GOVERNMENT! It is in YOUR best interest if you desire the "POKER MARKET" to remain as thriving as it is right now. THINK LONG TERM like you teach us to!

[/ QUOTE ]

wow erin brockovich settle down - maybe you should advocate for something more worthwhile

[/ QUOTE ]

I had to laugh at this. I follow the law so I guess it's a bit more important to me than others who do not follow the law. So yes, when I found out it was illegal for me to play in my state and that I would have to move to KY or the D.C., I immediately stopped playing. So of course I'd be a little bit passionate in legalizing it.

[pshabi]

Luck play in whole or IN PART. Poker's got some luck. It's covered.

[pshabi]

Go Purdue

[pshabi]

Those are max penalities and are very extreme. Most likely, it sounds like when you get caught drinking underage.

Court appearance, diversion, court costs, counseling, next.

[Jim Kuhn]

Anyone else think Big Brother is becoming too intrusive to our everyday lives? This is why I became a Libertarian a couple of years ago. Check out the Libertarian viewpoints by clicking here. (http://www.lp.org/issues/issues.shtml)

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
/images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[Keith Fellmy]

Being a former resident of Indiana, I know that the Attorney General has been after online gambling and poker sites for a while. They issued many warnings to their citizens about playing, but there was no laws on the books. With their burgeoning casino industry I see why it is now illegal...someone made a donation to some political person's "campaign fund."

I was always working so I never tried online gambling/poker until I moved to Florida.

[Keith Fellmy]

make a "donation" to their campaign fund...then you get what ever you want!!!!

[bkholdem]

Get the F out of that state. F them. If this is a trend, and it actually translates into not being able to play, a lot of us are out a lot of mula. I would like to see a players association organize players in the US to write letters to congressment, reps, etc. We need an organized voice.

I suggest everyone in Indiana write your elected representatives. If you are not a registered voter, register first. They often check to see the status of people who write/call. You can usually write your elected representatives. Let them know you are against this, find out how they voted.

If there were a players association or something they could track pending legislature and inform us so we could write our elected officials prior to this stuff being voted on/passed. Hundreds of letters rolling in do make a difference.

[LeatherFace]

Wow, why we allow people who have no knowledge about the subject create laws about it is beyond me.

[jrbick]

[ QUOTE ]
Get the F out of that state. F them. If this is a trend, and it actually translates into not being able to play, a lot of us are out a lot of mula. I would like to see a players association organize players in the US to write letters to congressment, reps, etc. We need an organized voice.

I suggest everyone in Indiana write your elected representatives. If you are not a registered voter, register first. They often check to see the status of people who write/call. You can usually write your elected representatives. Let them know you are against this, find out how they voted.

If there were a players association or something they could track pending legislature and inform us so we could write our elected officials prior to this stuff being voted on/passed. Hundreds of letters rolling in do make a difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

Finally!!! Our first occurance of some sort of coalescence (that I am aware of)!! That makes two of us.

[jrbick]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, why we allow people who have no knowledge about the subject create laws about it is beyond me.

[/ QUOTE ]

So why don't we coalesce and educate them?!

[o0mr_bill0o]

yeah, not "think parking ticket". but think, perhaps "one step lower than marijuana posession"

[o0mr_bill0o]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone else think Big Brother is becoming too intrusive to our everyday lives? This is why I became a Libertarian a couple of years ago. Check out the Libertarian viewpoints by clicking here. (http://www.lp.org/issues/issues.shtml)

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
/images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

libertarian *barf* don't get me started...

[Uglyowl]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone else think Big Brother is becoming too intrusive to our everyday lives? This is why I became a Libertarian a couple of years ago. Check out the Libertarian viewpoints by clicking here. (http://www.lp.org/issues/issues.shtml)

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
/images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

libertarian *barf* don't get me started...

[/ QUOTE ]

Jefferson would be ashamed at the government sticking it's nose in people's business like this.

[LeatherFace]

[ QUOTE ]
So why don't we coalesce and educate them?!

[/ QUOTE ]

why dont you????I dont have much time between humping women and flexing my pecks.

[Lestat]

<font color="red">Believing otherwise is a fallacy. </font>

This is true, but there are elements of gambling in most every endeavor. Buying a house is gambling, etc. It would be nice if these anti-gaming people would change their tune to include only games in which +EV is impossible.

[Lestat]

This might sound silly, but I play a lot of online poker so if I lived in Indiana and were served this notice, I would become an activist in the matter and take it to court. I would claim that poker is my profession and a good part of my livelihood and they are prevented me from making a living, etc. etc.

If you looked hard enough I bet you could find a lawyer who would take the case pro-bono or at the very least on contingency if you sued. I realize this is probably too extreme for most.

[Keith Fellmy]

The casinos in Indiana would ban together to defeat you, plus no lawyer would want the case because they know they would lose.

Though I do like your attitude!!!!

[Lestat]

You really think it wouldn't stand a chance in court? Isn't this an infrigement of some sort? The actual game itself is not eminating from Indiana. Everyone has a right to make a living. This is still a very grey area.

As to the lawyer: I wouldn't be so sure. This has the makings to be a landmark case. Lawyers love those. If they win one or even just make enough noise and a little progress, it is great for their career.

[KKbluff]

On a side note...

How would/could one get caught for online gambling?

[o0mr_bill0o]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone else think Big Brother is becoming too intrusive to our everyday lives? This is why I became a Libertarian a couple of years ago. Check out the Libertarian viewpoints by clicking here. (http://www.lp.org/issues/issues.shtml)

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
/images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

libertarian *barf* don't get me started...

[/ QUOTE ]

Jefferson would be ashamed at the government sticking it's nose in people's business like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, but i still *barf* at libertarians. most of the reasons not being related to their ideology. seriously, don't get me started, i'll go for hours.

[o0mr_bill0o]

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone has a right to make a living. This is still a very grey area.


[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, but you don't have the right to make a living profiting from illegal practices. i don't have the right to make a living dealing coke, just as i don't have the right to make a living playing poker.

[Brainwalter]

[ QUOTE ]
... i still *barf* at libertarians. most of the reasons not being related to their ideology.

[/ QUOTE ]

But... libertarianism is an ideology.
(I'm trying to "get you started.")

[CORed]

I'm not a lawyer, but after wading throuhg the legal mumbo jumbo, it seems to me that operating an internet gambling site in Indiana, or operating an internet gambling site that is accessible from Indiana, is a class D felony. Playing on an Internet gambling site would appear to be, at worst, a Class B misdemeanor. The law, as I read it, also allows, but does not require, ISP's to block access to gambling sites, and protects them from liability should they choose to do so. I'm sure that Ruth Parasol, Anuraq Dikshit, et al, are emotionally devastated that they will not be able to visit Indiana any time soon.

[o0mr_bill0o]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
... i still *barf* at libertarians. most of the reasons not being related to their ideology.

[/ QUOTE ]

But... libertarianism is an ideology.
(I'm trying to "get you started.")

[/ QUOTE ]

note that i said libertarians, rather than libertarianism. i would consider myself relatively close to libertarian in my ideals (still, not quite there), however, politically, i just can't stand the libertarian party and most libertarians.