QTo- Overaggressive flop?

[flair1239]

5/10

Hero is MP3 w/ Q /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/spade.gif

UTG is 54/17/1.4 over 40 hands. He is the reason I am still at the table.

UTG 2 is 30/0/.89 over 30 hands has not been to active, the oly thing I take from the stats is that he probably is passive.

SB is a solid player with weak tight tendencies. But is most likely either breakeven or a small winner in this game

BB is 38/24/1.53 and all the good things that come with that.

PF: UTG limps, UTG2 limps, I limp, SB completes, BB raises, all call to SB who folds

Flop (4 players) (9SB) (4 /images/graemlins/club.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif)

BB bets, UTG folds, UTG2 raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG folds, UTG2 calls.

Turn (2-players) (8BB) (4 /images/graemlins/club.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif) 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Villian checks, I bet, Villan calls

River (2-player) (10BB) 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Villan bets, hero calls

Thoughts:

I thought about raising PF, but decided against it as I did not want to go 3-bets, and with the LAG in the BB I felt that was a possibility. I had been planning to fold, but with the UTG LAG and the UTG2 passive, I thought it was probably a decent spot.

On the flop I considered folding again, and if the villian had these stats over 300 hands instead of 30 I might have considered it. I gave him credit for a Queen or maybe A decent PP, or possbily a set. If he had a Queen I was thinking Q7-KQo suited or offsuit. I decided to play, so I three bet to attempt to get HU.

Turn: I really thought about checking through. However at this point I also thought that no cap no bet from Villian, it is likely that I might have the best hand.

River: Could not see any reason to raise, also have a strong suspicion that I have been owned at this point.

Thoughts?

[Jules22]

given your read on utg2, i would probably fold on the flop. what is a very passive player raising with that you beat? especially on this rainbow drawless board.

[sy_or_bust]

I don't like QTo in this situation, especially when you suspect BB will raise. You can limp behind loose limpers if you can get in for one bet (and that's still pretty marginal), but you don't want to pay 2 bets here.

Part of the reason I wouldn't play QTo has to do with this flop. You flop top pair and face a raise from a passive player. Your hand it not very strong here, and is only marginally playable because of your reads (i.e. UTG+2 should be making a play with something like 77 here, but he is passive so who knows?).

I still like the flop 3-bet, even if the situation blows. I will take the free card if BB folds or is all-in (I cannot tell). I think my opponent is drawing to 2 outs or I am behind. I can't see UTG+2 raising with anything else, and there isn't a good hand he'll fold on the turn. If you can induce a bluff on the river, great, but that's the most I'll pay for a showdown UI.

[SinCityGuy]

QTo is a lousy hand, and you shouldn't even be playing it unless you're stealing the blinds from LP or defending your blind to a steal.

The problem with playing this hand behind other limpers is that you'll tend to win very small pots and lose large pots.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
QTo is a lousy hand IN THIS POSITION

[/ QUOTE ]

fixed your post, I think your advice is a bit too tight. Its a decent limping hand with 3-4 limpers in the CO or button.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
QTo is a lousy hand IN THIS POSITION

[/ QUOTE ]

fixed your post, I think your advice is a bit too tight. Its a decent limping hand with 3-4 limpers in the CO or button.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I fold because of the tendency of players to limp with KQo, QJo, and KTo. When you do hit the flop, you're likely to win a small pot (if it didn't hit anyone else), or lose a larger pot (if it did hit someone else).

The problem is that over time, most players won't recognize the difference, because they'll win a certain percentage of the time. Most of the time, they will be very small pots.

[Jake (The Snake)]

I'd consider folding this flop against a fairly aggressive player. Against a passive player, easy fold.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
QTo is a lousy hand IN THIS POSITION

[/ QUOTE ]

fixed your post, I think your advice is a bit too tight. Its a decent limping hand with 3-4 limpers in the CO or button.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I fold because of the tendency of players to limp with KQo, QJo, and KTo. When you do hit the flop, you're likely to win a small pot (if it didn't hit anyone else), or lose a larger pot (if it did hit someone else).

The problem is that over time, most players won't recognize the difference, because they'll win a certain percentage of the time. Most of the time, they will be very small pots.

[/ QUOTE ]

I tend to stick to Ed's advice in SSHE when it comes to offsuited broadway cards such as QTo, the size of the pot dictates that this is a good investment on the part of the player. Of course you are right that there are inherent risks involved when playing such a hand, but they are generally marginally profitable in the long run for a thinking player.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif