High Bags, Small Pairs . . . Don't You Ever Fold?

[Spladle Master]

Subject line's a little tongue-in-cheek. This is the first hand I've posted that went to a showdown. Probably requires a little background. Seat 4 is a total muppet. I was reasonably sure that I had the best hand on fourth and fifth, though it's possible that he was check-calling with a four in the hole. I thought it more likely that he was just being his usual donk-ish self. On sixth when he called I figured he either had me beat or he had a spade in the hole. Anyone bet the river? He'd certainly pay off with ace-high, but I just didn't think he'd have exactly that (or maybe a pair of twos) often enough to make a bet profitable.

As always, please give me your thoughts on whether or not this hand is playable on third.

7 Card Stud High ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (hand converter (http://www.geocities.com/greenage22/7StudConverter.hta.txt))

3rd Street - (0.75 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___brings-in
Seat 2: xx xx A/images/graemlins/club.gif___folds
Seat 4: xx xx A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___calls
Hero: 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif___calls
Seat 6: xx xx A/images/graemlins/heart.gif___folds
Seat 7: xx xx T/images/graemlins/club.gif___folds

4th Street - (2.25 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/club.gif___folds
Seat 4: xx xx A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks___calls
Hero: 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif___bets

5th Street - (2.13 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks___calls
Hero: 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 5/images/graemlins/club.gif___bets

6th Street - (4.13 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks___calls
Hero: 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 5/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif___bets

River - (6.13 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif xx___checks
Hero: 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 5/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif___checks

Total pot: (6.13 BB)

[PoorLawyer]

[ QUOTE ]
Subject line's a little tongue-in-cheek. This is the first hand I've posted that went to a showdown. Probably requires a little background. Seat 4 is a total muppet. I was reasonably sure that I had the best hand on fourth and fifth, though it's possible that he was check-calling with a four in the hole. I thought it more likely that he was just being his usual donk-ish self. On sixth when he called I figured he either had me beat or he had a spade in the hole. Anyone bet the river? He'd certainly pay off with ace-high, but I just didn't think he'd have exactly that (or maybe a pair of twos) often enough to make a bet profitable.

As always, please give me your thoughts on whether or not this hand is playable on third.

7 Card Stud High ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (hand converter (http://www.geocities.com/greenage22/7StudConverter.hta.txt))

3rd Street - (0.75 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___brings-in
Seat 2: xx xx A/images/graemlins/club.gif___folds
Seat 4: xx xx A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___calls
Hero: 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif___calls
Seat 6: xx xx A/images/graemlins/heart.gif___folds
Seat 7: xx xx T/images/graemlins/club.gif___folds

4th Street - (2.25 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/club.gif___folds
Seat 4: xx xx A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks___calls
Hero: 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif___bets

5th Street - (2.13 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks___calls
Hero: 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 5/images/graemlins/club.gif___bets

6th Street - (4.13 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks___calls
Hero: 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 5/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif___bets

River - (6.13 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif xx___checks
Hero: 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 5/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif___checks

Total pot: (6.13 BB)

[/ QUOTE ]

I see you are trying to push him of his hand, which is fine to a point. However, I would check 6th when it doesnt look like he is going anywhere. You could be beaten the whole way and just throwing money away here. He could easily have limped in with a higher pair, and almost any pair beats you.

on 3rd I would tend to raise in this spot and represent Jacks and try to get it heads up. If you don't want to raise, then I'd tend towards folding.

Also, since you have a read on this guy as a totally donk, it may not be the person you want to run a bluff (semi-bluff I guess since your cards are live) against, which is pretty much all you have going for you here.

[Spladle Master]

[ QUOTE ]
I see you are trying to push him of his hand, which is fine to a point. However, I would check 6th when it doesnt look like he is going anywhere. You could be beaten the whole way and just throwing money away here. He could easily have limped in with a higher pair, and almost any pair beats you.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'm not trying to push him off his hand. He doesn't have a hand. He would not have limped in with a pair, and he saw fourth street 100% of the time over a period of 150 hands. I did mention that I was slightly afraid that he had a four in the hole, but it was much more likely that he didn't.

[ QUOTE ]
on 3rd I would tend to raise in this spot and represent Jacks and try to get it heads up. If you don't want to raise, then I'd tend towards folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason I limped in on third is so that if he caught a big card on fourth and bet, I could fold with a clear conscience (unless I improved). Also if any other player entered the pot, I would tend to play more conservatively on the later streets.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, since you have a read on this guy as a totally donk, it may not be the person you want to run a bluff (semi-bluff I guess since your cards are live) against, which is pretty much all you have going for you here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reiterate that I'm definitely not trying to bluff this guy.

[PoorLawyer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I see you are trying to push him of his hand, which is fine to a point. However, I would check 6th when it doesnt look like he is going anywhere. You could be beaten the whole way and just throwing money away here. He could easily have limped in with a higher pair, and almost any pair beats you.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'm not trying to push him off his hand. He doesn't have a hand. He would not have limped in with a pair, and he saw fourth street 100% of the time over a period of 150 hands. I did mention that I was slightly afraid that he had a four in the hole, but it was much more likely that he didn't.

[ QUOTE ]
on 3rd I would tend to raise in this spot and represent Jacks and try to get it heads up. If you don't want to raise, then I'd tend towards folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason I limped in on third is so that if he caught a big card on fourth and bet, I could fold with a clear conscience (unless I improved). Also if any other player entered the pot, I would tend to play more conservatively on the later streets.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, since you have a read on this guy as a totally donk, it may not be the person you want to run a bluff (semi-bluff I guess since your cards are live) against, which is pretty much all you have going for you here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reiterate that I'm definitely not trying to bluff this guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you arent trying to bluff him off his hand, i really dont see betting for value with a pair of 4s here. Even if he didnt have a hand on 5th or sixth but you know he will call to the river, you can be drawn out on so easily with that weak holding that it probably isnt worth the bet. what does anyone else think?