Sixes

[bobbyi]

20/40 at the Bike. We are about eight handed. Table is generally somewhat loose and neither particularly passive nor aggressive. A somewhat loose aggressive player returning to the table has posted a live big blind and dead small blind in the cutoff. A friend of mine raises in early position (EP). He is a good player, but probably too tight and I can often push him off hands postflop. One guy folds and I coldcall early with 66. Folded to the cutoff poster who three-bets. Super loose button calls, blinds fold and we call. Four to the flop for three bets.

The flop is 774r. EP bets, I raise and everyone calls.

The turn is To. He checks, I bet, CO and button call and he folds.

The river is a Q. It's checked to the button who bets, I call and CO folds.

[TiltsMcFabulous]

Why did you call the river bet?

(this is a real question, I actually want to know your reasoning)

[pokerhooker]

How tight is your friend? If he's quite tight, I don't like my 66 when faced with his early position raise, so I muck. Futheremore, there's quite a bit of action remaining behind you.

It's useful to know that you can push him off hands, and if that's your intention, I prefer a 3-bet preflop, but again, I don't think 66 has enough value for that play.

It seems like you have a conflict of interest. You hope that he raised with a big ace and will fold when rags flop and he misses. Yet, If he has a bigger pair, you're going to need, and therefore want, a real scary board that will probably hit the big ace with either a pair or some broadway draw. So, other than obviously hoping for a 6, which do you want?

[andyfox]

So here you are on the river with 6-6 and the board is 7-7-4-T-Q and you've put four-and-a-half beig bets in the pot and you don't know if you're going to be overcalled by The Third Man behind you. If I thought I could push a player in front of me off his hand post-flop, I'd 3-bet pre-flop to try to limit any potential interlopers from spoiling my plan.

BTW, I played in the Bike 20-40 a couple weeks ago during the day and I think a 2+2er could make almost as much in that game as in the Commerce 40-80 day games.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
So, other than obviously hoping for a 6, which do you want?

[/ QUOTE ]
I think it simplifies things too much to say that there is some specific flop I am looking for when I make the preflop call. There are several different good situations than can arise and I think that collectively they add up to enough equity to justify taking a look at the flop. But what flop I want really depends on how the preflop action plays out.

With a cutoff poster (and dead money from the posted small blind) and a very loose button, my coldcall will often result in us taking this flop multiway for two bets. It wouldn't be at all surprising if the cutoff, button and both blinds came along, for example. That scenario is certainly profitable. Between the chance that EP has a big pair and the loose players behind me, I could win a huge pot if I flopped a set. In that scenario, I would be pretty much playing for set equity alone, but that is fine as I have enough to be happy that I called.

If the players behind me don't come along, that is fine too. The posted blinds will leave plenty of dead money in the pot, enough to justify me trying to hijack the pot. This is profitable too. The dead money from the poster is very significant and I would not have called here otherwise.

So if my coldcall induces others to come along, that is fine and if they don't, that is fine too.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
So here you are on the river with 6-6 and the board is 7-7-4-T-Q and you've put four-and-a-half beig bets in the pot and you don't know if you're going to be overcalled by The Third Man behind you.

[/ QUOTE ]
How often does the Third Man (who actually happened to be a Woman) really have me beat here? I thought that she would have three-bet the flop with an overpair (which is any pocket bigger than mine) and also would have bet the river once I checked if she had something. She was fairly aggressive and I can't see her checking a Q or T here.

[ QUOTE ]
If I thought I could push a player in front of me off his hand post-flop, I'd 3-bet pre-flop to try to limit any potential interlopers from spoiling my plan.

[/ QUOTE ]
"My plan" wasn't really to steal the pot from EP. My main plan was that since it was a loose and not overly aggressive game, I thought that with two people already in early and all the extra money in from the cutoff poster, we would often take this multiway for two bets and I could potentially win a huge pot with a flopped set. Pushing him off his hand was more of a backup plan. I think that the combination of the two made this playable.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you call the river bet?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm getting roughly 15-to-1 on the river call. I need to be ahead of the button somewhat more than one time out of sixteen because there is also the risk that the cutoff overcalls behind me with a better hand, but I think that her having me beat is very unlikely. Being reasonably aggressive, I expect she would have reraised the flop with an overpair and if not she might have raised the turn or bet the river. If she hit her AQ, she would certainly have bet the river once I checked.

So I am really only worried about the button. It's very likely that he hit the queen (or maybe decided that his ten or pocket pair is good when we both check), but I think that he will have something goofy like A4s, 56s, 89s, 33, etc., more than one of sixteen times. Sometimes these California players will show you something completely absurd in this spot and I don't think I can be that confident that he has something based on him betting once, especially when that bet took place when checked to on the river in a very large pot.

[pokerhooker]

Hi bobbyi,

Sure if everyone comes in behind you for 2-bets, then the pot has developed nicely, but the inability to anticipate that with any accuracy is what leans this to a fold for me. Would you have called a cap from the EP raiser after the poster 3-bet? I imagine you would, as you are taking just slighlty the worst of it to flop your set, but I, for one, would hate my holding in a capped flop. This leads to higher variance, which I could do without.

[elysium]

hi bobbyi

this is a fold on the pre-flop. the reason for folding isn't so much because of the odds you're getting, which are not good. you should fold because you get into this hand based upon being able to tackle the UTG pre-flop raiser when rags flop. however bobby, behind you are the two elements who you can count on being in there when you make your foldout attempt, and neither one of those guys will be folding.

the call is bad for other reasons too. gee bobby, come on man. look at that call? have you also fallen victim to the wishful thinking money tree canker being spread from limb to limb around here? what a bad call. what were you thinking? what could you be thinking?

and look at the flop. (lol) i guess this year's harvest will be another scanty. looks like another all nickel. be tough to chew.

alright, go ahhh bobby. let's see the turn. whew....thank goodness a suited T didn't land. you tell me a Ts came flying out, and i boogie out o' here.

river; will you look at that over-call?

wow.

we need to restructure a little poeple, and we are not going to begin our restructuring at the point of under-pair to a pair on board. whatever has been going on around here, we need to dismantle it, and begin all over again starting with the basics. and bobby, i want you to do 30 days of hfap and top.

[Lawrence Ng]

You are pretty much playing this for set value once it's 3-betted multi-way back to you. If you miss - fold on the flop.

Lots of mediocre players will only check or just call their overpairs in this situation fearing you could have 7. So you will have very little clue as to where you stand on this board.

Lawrence