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View Full Version : *** OFFICIAL Lance in France with Tight Pants thread ***


Patrick del Poker Grande
07-01-2005, 11:11 AM
Le Tour de France starts tomorrow. Discuss.

jakethebake
07-01-2005, 11:24 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Le Tour de France starts tomorrow. Discuss.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the "sports" forum. I don't know where this belongs but it isn't here. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

MoreWineII
07-01-2005, 11:26 AM
I predict Lance won't win this one.

jakethebake
07-01-2005, 11:34 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I predict Lance won't win this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

i predicted that last year. i figured all the sponsorships, interviews, tv appearances, popstar girlfriends, etc. would have distracted him too much.

CollinEstes
07-01-2005, 11:35 AM
Well you know the the thing about the Tour de France isssssssssssssssssssss

CollinEstes
07-01-2005, 11:36 AM
Sorry I fell asleep in the middle of my thought.

jakethebake
07-01-2005, 11:49 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Well you know the the thing about the Tour de France isssssssssssssssssssss

[/ QUOTE ]

The best thing about it is that there are suddenly all these people riding around town in those goofy outfits.

Hey what's with those pants anyway? Wouldn't it be easier to have a padded bicycle seat inctead of pants?

namknils
07-01-2005, 11:54 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I predict Lance won't win this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I predict Lance will win this one.

Lance thinks so too, web page (http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/tdf2005/columns/story?id=2096879)

on_thg
07-01-2005, 12:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Well you know the the thing about the Tour de France isssssssssssssssssssss

[/ QUOTE ]

The best thing about the Tour de France is boozing it up during the OLNTV coverage.

Every time Phil and Paul (http://outside.away.com/outside/features/200407/phil_liggett_paul_sherwen_2.html) use one of their patented cliches, you must drink, e.g. here (http://forums.bicycling.com/thread.jspa?threadID=90289&tstart=0).

I drink everything in the house if someone is "ticking over a massive gear" on a flat stage.

kyro
07-01-2005, 12:50 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I predict Lance won't win this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I predict Lance will win this one.

Lance thinks so too, web page (http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/tdf2005/columns/story?id=2096879)

[/ QUOTE ]

Well hell! I'm convinced!

Voltron87
07-01-2005, 01:18 PM
ive heard from people who know what theyre talking about that this one will be much harder for lance as he didnt start training until later than he has the last 6 years since he wasnt sure if he was going to do it.

lance drinking game is on.

Macdaddy Warsaw
07-01-2005, 01:54 PM
I'm poker-employed for the summer, so a long ass drinking binge is something I can do. What are the rules?

Voltron87
07-01-2005, 01:59 PM
i dunno, im guessing drink a beer everytime...

cancer is mentioned
lances 6 titles are mentioned
some other cliche, need help on these

jdl22
07-01-2005, 03:06 PM
How about "diesel engine" in reference to Ullrich, or references to Lance's higher cadence which he picked up from Indurain. You could also drink every time Paul Sherwin refers to the bikes as machines. That'll get you drunk early and on your ass later.

jdl22
07-01-2005, 03:18 PM
I'm really looking forward to it. I haven't followed cycling as closely this year as I have in the past due to studying for exams so I don't know much about the form of the riders. Based on what I've read Ullrich is very fit which has been a problem for him in the past. All the usual suspects are going to be in there so it should be more competitive as it was last year. As usual Lance's team is extremely strong, one thing that has changed is Ullrich's team has improved. If Oscar Sevilla and Vinokourov are riding for him he will be tough to beat as the Discovery Channel team may not be able to isolate Lance's foes in the mountains. They may not be though as both those guys could have personal ambitions.

Arnfinn Madsen
07-01-2005, 03:30 PM
Was there and followed a few stages last year. Really incredible experience. Recommend it for everyone.

jakethebake
07-01-2005, 03:43 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I predict Lance won't win this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

...plus they're keeping a closer eye on him so he won't be doping this year. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

Voltron87
07-02-2005, 01:13 PM
lance comes in 2nd in the opening trial, by 2 seconds. whips everyone who matters. wow. watching him pass ullrich was awesome.

Arnfinn Madsen
07-03-2005, 12:32 AM
[ QUOTE ]
lance comes in 2nd in the opening trial, by 2 seconds. whips everyone who matters. wow. watching him pass ullrich was awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Ullrich does not have the qualities needed to win TdF. His performances wary to much from day to day (he showed symptoms of that in Tour de Suisse too. Lance will win the whole thing if he does not encounter any problems or get some really bad days.

rusty JEDI
07-03-2005, 02:31 AM
I dont think he's doping. My rationale for thinking this way is because if he had doped in the past and got away with it and was still doping he wouldnt risk his reputation and record 6 in a row by getting caught now.

Sure he may figure that if he didnt get caught before he wouldnt get caught now, but there has to be at least a little fear. I just dont see getting a pointless 7th title would be worth the risk of tarnishing the 6 that matter.

rJ

jdl22
07-03-2005, 04:50 AM
As I've said before, I haven't followed cycling this year at all since I started studying for final exams and then my prelims basically from March on. Has Ullrich's weight fluctuated this year as in the past? I know he's had big problems with this and his weight going up and down will affect his consistency. He looks fit now but if he lost a lot of weight in the last couple months that can really affect his energy reserves I would think.

On another note, I hope they still show cycling on OLN after Lance quits. I suspect that they will since they show the Giro, Vuelta and classics which he doesn't enter. I think the performance of the US cyclists will help that, hopefully there is still an American team next year too though I'm not sure who they will get to captain it, maybe Levi Leipheimer? He had a pretty good ride today, only 5 seconds behind Ullrich.

Arnfinn Madsen
07-03-2005, 08:57 AM
He has become more disciplined, so I guess he controls his weight better.

If they stop showing it, go there. Great experience, you won't believe how great it is until you are there (the bikers is only 10% of the experience).

DeadMoneyOC
07-03-2005, 05:41 PM
Lance in France with Tight Pants

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Thats awesome!

jdl22
07-03-2005, 11:25 PM
Yeah, it's something I've wanted to do for awhile. I would also love to watch the Vuelta. I studied in Sevilla, Spain for a semester so it would be great to follow the vuelta for a few weeks. The tour may be better since it's in July instead of August or September though I prefer the Vuelta since it's in Spain and I like the race setup better.

[censored]
07-05-2005, 03:26 PM
Armstrong takes the yellow jersey today and now has a 55 second overall lead.

Voltron87
07-05-2005, 03:34 PM
So far everything has gone perfectly for Lance.

mmbt0ne
07-05-2005, 04:14 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse ŕ:</font><hr />
Armstrong takes the yellow jersey today and now has a 55 second overall lead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Zabriskie busted on a straightaway during the team time trial. It was really weird to see, because I have no idea why it happened.

jdl22
07-05-2005, 05:38 PM
He touched wheels with the guy in front of him. At those speeds it's very easy to go down that way.

I don't think it'll matter but I think it would have been a bit better for Lance to have not gotten the yellow jersey until later. It's a big distraction and the team will be more tired defending it.

on_thg
07-06-2005, 09:51 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it'll matter but I think it would have been a bit better for Lance to have not gotten the yellow jersey until later. It's a big distraction and the team will be more tired defending it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be surprised if they did defend it. If there's a breakaway of non-contenders from lesser teams, Discovery ought to let them go. Get a French rider out front and make his team do a lot of the work, just like last year.

namknils
07-06-2005, 09:54 AM
Lance has been saying all along that he wanted it, and there goal was to win the TTT. I don't think he minds having the yellow jersey so early.

Drac
07-06-2005, 12:22 PM
[ QUOTE ]
As usual Lance's team is extremely strong, one thing that has changed is Ullrich's team has improved. If Oscar Sevilla and Vinokourov are riding for him he will be tough to beat as the Discovery Channel team may not be able to isolate Lance's foes in the mountains. They may not be though as both those guys could have personal ambitions.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think Ullrich is the top dog on that team anymore. He thinks he is but I think Vinokourov is a better overall rider. It will help Lance if they continue to support Ullrich and not Vinny.

jdl22
07-06-2005, 02:52 PM
Armstrong apparently didn't think he deserved yellow today:
[ QUOTE ]

This is the Tour de France and anything can happen. One thing is almost certain in July; Lance Armstrong will wear the yellow jersey. But this was something that almost didn’t happen today. In a sympathetic gesture for Dave Zabriskie, the rider who lost the overall lead because of a crash at the end of the team time trial, Armstrong refused to don the coveted jersey at the start of the stage.
He didn’t believe he’d earned the right to wear yellow because of the unfortunate circumstances that surrounded his inheritance. In the neutral zone, Lance wore his Discovery Channel jersey but the race organizers insisted that the peloton stop at the site of the official start. They had to coax Armstrong into yellow. He eventually succumbed to their wishes and racing got underway, albeit five minutes after the expected departure time.

[/ QUOTE ]

namknils
07-06-2005, 03:20 PM
I saw the interview this morning with Lance, he had said that out of respect for tradition and David Z he wasn't going to wear the yellow jersey, but if they kept it today that he would wear it tomorrow.

I also read that the race administrators threatened to DQ him if he didn't wear the jersey, that was how they had to "coax Armstrong into yellow."

I was kind of bummed when DZ fell yesterday because I was really interested in the finish. It would have been really close if he didn't fall.

jdl22
07-07-2005, 03:52 AM
[ QUOTE ]

I'd be surprised if they did defend it. If there's a breakaway of non-contenders from lesser teams, Discovery ought to let them go. Get a French rider out front and make his team do a lot of the work, just like last year.


[/ QUOTE ]

It appears that you're right. I figured due to lack of powerhouse sprinter team (see Fassa the last couple years) that the sprinters' teams wouldn't step up, looks like they're doing the job together though. I don't think Bruneel would mind Lance losing the jersey anyway if it's to a breakaway by a noncontender.

Macdaddy Warsaw
07-07-2005, 09:37 AM
I just wanted to say that I was watching the coverage of OLN and they showed Lance in the middle o the pack and when he noticed them filming he made a face and then said "Where's the sun?" in French.

I love this man.

Arnfinn Madsen
07-07-2005, 11:44 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As usual Lance's team is extremely strong, one thing that has changed is Ullrich's team has improved. If Oscar Sevilla and Vinokourov are riding for him he will be tough to beat as the Discovery Channel team may not be able to isolate Lance's foes in the mountains. They may not be though as both those guys could have personal ambitions.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think Ullrich is the top dog on that team anymore. He thinks he is but I think Vinokourov is a better overall rider. It will help Lance if they continue to support Ullrich and not Vinny.

[/ QUOTE ]

Today Vinokourov again showed that he has the capacity to accelerate fast with good timing, something Ullrich seems to lack.

kyro
07-07-2005, 12:18 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I just wanted to say that I was watching the coverage of OLN and they showed Lance in the middle o the pack and when he noticed them filming he made a face and then said "Where's the sun?" in French.

I love this man.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ou est le soleil?

6 friggin years of French and I'm not even sure if that's right. What a waste.

jgunnip
07-07-2005, 10:42 PM
Did anyone else see that spectator moon the breakaway man on the last climb? gotta love the french sense of humor.

Drac
07-08-2005, 02:36 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Did anyone else see that spectator moon the breakaway man on the last climb? gotta love the french sense of humor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good thing it wasn't a fake moon. Big fines for that.

[censored]
07-09-2005, 01:02 PM
Armstong still held onto his 1:00 overall lead although his discovery teammates fell behind and for some reason this is bad.

Arnfinn Madsen
07-09-2005, 02:16 PM
Yeah, he was really struggling today. He personally did a good job though since he managed to stay in the right spots even without his team. If his teammates will not be there in the important moments the benefit of Telekom in having 3 good placed riders will hand them the victory. I don't think it will be Ullrich though (he never manages to accelerate from Lance), rather Vinokourov or maybe Klöden.

jdl22
07-09-2005, 03:58 PM
Pretty close finish today.

http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/TDF/2005/800/finish.jpg

Tron
07-09-2005, 07:51 PM
I really don't understand the "team" concept of cycling. This is probably because I don't care about cycling. But I still want to know what the team does. Please explain.

Victor
07-09-2005, 07:55 PM
riding in the front is much more work than riding in the back due to wind resistance. teammates ride in front of lance essentially pulling him along. now he saves energy.

also, accelerating to catch breakaway riders takes tons of energy. teammates do this while lance cruises along at an even pace while his mates chase down the breakaway.

Tron
07-09-2005, 07:56 PM
Wait, so what do they do when they "catch" these breakaways? Get in front of him and go really slow?

jdl22
07-09-2005, 08:09 PM
You mean before or after?

In order to catch them they simply lift the pace so that they go fast enough to catch them. After they do that they don't do anything specific. Normally when guys are caught they are quite tired if it's a long breakaway. If it's very short which normally happens when the guys in the large groups don't want a particular rider to get away so if he tries then they will keep the pace up and if he tries to go off the front they increase the pace even more to keep him from getting away.

Arnfinn Madsen
07-09-2005, 08:19 PM
An attempt to explain I posted in another thread:
[ QUOTE ]

I guess you refer to the stage of today. I am a Tour de France-freak (watching updates on the internet before the TV coverag starts every day ).

There are many elements of team tactics and most of them are actually quite irrelevant to Armstrong as tactics plays a bigger role on flatter stages than on the climbs.

But, reasons for Telecoms actions as I see it today. Since staying on an opponents wheel is much easier than being in front the yellow yersey has a benefit. As long as he manages to stay on the wheel of his opponent his opponent will burn more energy than him (which also has consequences for later days). Armstrong has used this tactics a lot, sometimes he has rode whole stages just staying on Ullrich's wheel.

If Telecom lets Lance succeed in this defence strategy Lance will easily win as he already has a lead and probably will beat all Telecom-riders in the time trial.

So basically Telecom needs to get a good rider ahead of Lance in the general classification so that Lance will need to attack (which will cost him more energy).

Today, they sent Vinokourov on the attack. They did this probably since Vinokourov has managed earlier to keep his lead on Lance when he has been ahead. Today's stage also had a downhill finish and Vinokourov is good downhill so I guess Vinokourov's attacks really scared Lance. If Lance had had a team mate, his team mate could have given Lance a wheel and used his energy to catch Vinokourov and it would be 1-1. Now Lance had to catch Vinokourov himself and Ullrich and Klöden could just use Armstrong's wheel, 1-0 to Telekom.

Then Telekom sent Klöden and Lance just had to accept that cat and mouse games with 3 opponents without having any helpers is even beyond his capacity. He thus focused on keeping Ullrich and Vinokourov in check.

Klöden gained important seconds in the general classification making this tactic even more powerful next time.



[/ QUOTE ]

Victor
07-09-2005, 09:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Wait, so what do they do when they "catch" these breakaways? Get in front of him and go really slow?

[/ QUOTE ]

lol no. i guess i should have worded it differently. they catch breakaways but what i really mean is they "pull" lance (and the rest of the peloton) to the breakaway so that lance can catch up without using a lot of energy.

rusty JEDI
07-09-2005, 09:58 PM
Watching Lance in France in the background and heard something about Kloden gaining an extra 8 seconds for finishing in a sprint. Does this mean he gets 8 seconds removed from his overall time because he participated in a sprint?

Are there any other ways to get seconds taken away? Does winning a stage get you any kind of bonus? What about a sprint for second place?

rJ

Arnfinn Madsen
07-09-2005, 10:04 PM
The 3 first placers in all stages except time travel receives a time bonus, I think it is 20' for 1st, 12' for 2nd and 8' for 3rd (not sure). It is deducted from a riders total time.

Victor
07-09-2005, 11:32 PM
velo news (http://www.velonews.com)

jdl22
07-10-2005, 12:43 AM
[ QUOTE ]
The 3 first placers in all stages except time travel receives a time bonus, I think it is 20' for 1st, 12' for 2nd and 8' for 3rd (not sure). It is deducted from a riders total time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Time travel stages are great. I loved the 1970 Mont Ventoux stage when Lance (as usual) wasn't enough for the mountain and Eddie Merckx dropped him up near the finish line.

rusty JEDI
07-10-2005, 07:11 PM
After the 9th stage

Voigt has taken the yellow jesey and Moreau has moved into second with Lance in third. The thing that amazes me is this below.

[ QUOTE ]
The one big scare Voigt had in his yellow-jersey coup was a puncture with 30km to go. But with such a lead on the peloton and the willingness by Moreau to wait for him, those fears of wasting his efforts were quickly allayed.

Voigt and Moreau cooperated all the way to the finish

‘I am very pleased he waited for me," said Voigt

[/ QUOTE ]

So basicallly if Moreau doesnt stop then he is in the yellow jersey. But, from what im reading Voigt is not a threat of winning the whole thing but Moreau is. This adds to my amazement of Moreau stopping. While he is stopped, Lance just continues to gain on him with the pack.

Is it that much of an advantage having 1 other person with you, and how long does it take to change a tire?

rJ

Arnfinn Madsen
07-10-2005, 07:24 PM
[ QUOTE ]
After the 9th stage

Voigt has taken the yellow jesey and Moreau has moved into second with Lance in third. The thing that amazes me is this below.

[ QUOTE ]
The one big scare Voigt had in his yellow-jersey coup was a puncture with 30km to go. But with such a lead on the peloton and the willingness by Moreau to wait for him, those fears of wasting his efforts were quickly allayed.

Voigt and Moreau cooperated all the way to the finish

‘I am very pleased he waited for me," said Voigt

[/ QUOTE ]

So basicallly if Moreau doesnt stop then he is in the yellow jersey. But, from what im reading Voigt is not a threat of winning the whole thing but Moreau is. This adds to my amazement of Moreau stopping. While he is stopped, Lance just continues to gain on him with the pack.

Is it that much of an advantage having 1 other person with you, and how long does it take to change a tire?

rJ

[/ QUOTE ]

Cycling is a gentleman's sport so taking advantage of others accidents is considered bad sportmanship. It is common courtesy to wait (Ullrich has waited for Armstrong etc.). Very often in a escape group of 4-5 riders it would be beneficiary to get rid of one rider as cooperation is easier but if someone punctures they almost always wait in respect as he will be chanceless in the no man's land between the escapees and the peloton.

jstnrgrs
07-10-2005, 07:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]
After the 9th stage

Voigt has taken the yellow jesey and Moreau has moved into second with Lance in third. The thing that amazes me is this below.

[ QUOTE ]
The one big scare Voigt had in his yellow-jersey coup was a puncture with 30km to go. But with such a lead on the peloton and the willingness by Moreau to wait for him, those fears of wasting his efforts were quickly allayed.

Voigt and Moreau cooperated all the way to the finish

‘I am very pleased he waited for me," said Voigt

[/ QUOTE ]

So basicallly if Moreau doesnt stop then he is in the yellow jersey. But, from what im reading Voigt is not a threat of winning the whole thing but Moreau is. This adds to my amazement of Moreau stopping. While he is stopped, Lance just continues to gain on him with the pack.

Is it that much of an advantage having 1 other person with you, and how long does it take to change a tire?

rJ

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing to understand about cycling is that it is a game of getting your opponents to do the work for you. If you leave all of your opponents behind, then you have to do all of your own work. In the meantime, you opponents are sharing the wirk with each other, so you will get much more tired than they will.

There is a chance that if Moreau didn't stop, then both he and Voight might have been caught. It is almost certain that they wouldn't have gained as much as they did. so if Moreau doesn't stop, then Lance might still have the jersey.

Arnfinn Madsen
07-10-2005, 07:35 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After the 9th stage

Voigt has taken the yellow jesey and Moreau has moved into second with Lance in third. The thing that amazes me is this below.

[ QUOTE ]
The one big scare Voigt had in his yellow-jersey coup was a puncture with 30km to go. But with such a lead on the peloton and the willingness by Moreau to wait for him, those fears of wasting his efforts were quickly allayed.

Voigt and Moreau cooperated all the way to the finish

‘I am very pleased he waited for me," said Voigt

[/ QUOTE ]

So basicallly if Moreau doesnt stop then he is in the yellow jersey. But, from what im reading Voigt is not a threat of winning the whole thing but Moreau is. This adds to my amazement of Moreau stopping. While he is stopped, Lance just continues to gain on him with the pack.

Is it that much of an advantage having 1 other person with you, and how long does it take to change a tire?

rJ

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing to understand about cycling is that it is a game of getting your opponents to do the work for you. If you leave all of your opponents behind, then you have to do all of your own work. In the meantime, you opponents are sharing the wirk with each other, so you will get much more tired than they will.

There is a chance that if Moreau didn't stop, then both he and Voight might have been caught. It is almost certain that they wouldn't have gained as much as they did. so if Moreau doesn't stop, then Lance might still have the jersey.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it was not that far from the goal. Lance was already chanceless to keep it. Moreau also lost more time waiting than he gained from company since it was so close to the goal and he knew this when waiting. By not waiting, Moreau would have started a battle against Voight for it. If you saw how Voight decided to thank by not crossing the finish line in front of Moreau even if he was a better sprinter you would get this.

LargeCents
07-11-2005, 02:54 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After the 9th stage

Voigt has taken the yellow jesey and Moreau has moved into second with Lance in third. The thing that amazes me is this below.

[ QUOTE ]
The one big scare Voigt had in his yellow-jersey coup was a puncture with 30km to go. But with such a lead on the peloton and the willingness by Moreau to wait for him, those fears of wasting his efforts were quickly allayed.

Voigt and Moreau cooperated all the way to the finish

‘I am very pleased he waited for me," said Voigt

[/ QUOTE ]

So basicallly if Moreau doesnt stop then he is in the yellow jersey. But, from what im reading Voigt is not a threat of winning the whole thing but Moreau is. This adds to my amazement of Moreau stopping. While he is stopped, Lance just continues to gain on him with the pack.

Is it that much of an advantage having 1 other person with you, and how long does it take to change a tire?

rJ

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing to understand about cycling is that it is a game of getting your opponents to do the work for you. If you leave all of your opponents behind, then you have to do all of your own work. In the meantime, you opponents are sharing the wirk with each other, so you will get much more tired than they will.

There is a chance that if Moreau didn't stop, then both he and Voight might have been caught. It is almost certain that they wouldn't have gained as much as they did. so if Moreau doesn't stop, then Lance might still have the jersey.

[/ QUOTE ]

Strategy and tactics in the Tour De France is more interesting than any other sport. It basically comes down to distribution of the workload, working in a pack of riders. A rider riding all alone works three times harder to maintain the same speed as a guy sitting in the middle of the main pack. The ratio isn't quite as high in smaller groups of riders, but it is still an enourmous advantage to sit behind another rider.

Typically, there is an understanding amongst riders that there must be a distribution of the workload for them to succeed, so rival riders must often work as a team, during a breakaway. The most interesting is seeing two rivals in a dual breakaway, working together to stay ahead of the rest of the pack, yet plotting a way to cross the finish line first if they can stay away. It is fascinating to watch how it plays out.

For Armstrong, he often has teammates around him whenever possible, often doing his share of the work, so he can conserve his strength for when he really needs it. Most other teams operate in this same fashion, protecting &amp; energizing their team captain. Lance has a more powerful team than most. T-Mobile with Ulrich, Vinokurov, Kloden, etc should have a fighting chance this year, because they have such a stack of talent. If T-Mobile can efficiently work together, I don't think it'll be tough for them to dismantle Armstrong in the mountains. I think it is quite possible/probable to see Armstrong in a 5 or 6 man lead pack up the mountains, where 3 of the pack are TMobile captains, which Lance must chase any individual breakaway. All TMobile has to do is set a pace which drops Lances bodyguards, then repeatedly counterattack Lance up the mountains. Lance has to chase down every attack, or lose time to a chief rival. Energy-wise, it's a lost battle. If TMobile's capable mountain men can break Lance, that's it. The thing is, who gets to break? Vino? Kloden? Ulrich? IMO, TMobile can pick and choose who they want to win the tour, based on this strategy, but who do they pick? More importantly, how do the other two guys respond, when they learn they'll have to do the work, and they don't get any glory? As a Lance fan, his only hope is there is inner dissent within TMobile, and they all start working for themselves rather than as a team, weakening the strategy perhaps to the point of failure against such a true champion.

Victor
07-11-2005, 03:18 AM
lance can counter this strategy by himself attacking. or counterattacking off another rider. basically, it comes down to acceleration on the steeps to clear himself of the others.

Macdaddy Warsaw
07-11-2005, 10:31 AM
It was my understanding that team tactics become less important in the mountain stages and that Lance's extraordinary climbing skills are what allows him to do so well. No?

Arnfinn Madsen
07-11-2005, 11:02 AM
[ QUOTE ]
It was my understanding that team tactics become less important in the mountain stages and that Lance's extraordinary climbing skills are what allows him to do so well. No?

[/ QUOTE ]

Team tactics is much less important when climbing due to the reduced effect of following a wheel. It is still important in mountain stages though as mountain stages also contains lots of kilometres where they are not climbing steep.

I.e. if Armstrong would gain a 20 second lead on 4 Telecom-riders on top of a mountain they would catch him again within 3-4 kilometres on flat terrain (providing their legs are ok).

on_thg
07-11-2005, 11:07 AM
How Discovery does in the big mountains is probably the second biggest wild card in determining whether Lance wins again (the first being Lance's own health and form). I wouldn't read too much into Saturday's "failure". Beltran, Azevedo and Rubiera are all exceptional climbers. If anything, I would expect that Armstrong will do virtually no work unless he has to cover a breakaway attempt and will have energy to do what he needs to do.

Query: If one of T-Mobile's big three does get away, will the other two be able to check their egos enough to force Lance (and, say, Heras, Leipheimer, Landis, Basso, etc) to do all the work chasing him down?

I'll also be interested to hear the commentary on Moreau's chances. He's solid, but is a bit old (34) and couldn't keep up with the best of the best last year on the major climbs.

Arnfinn Madsen
07-11-2005, 12:46 PM
T-mobile will definately check their egos, failing in such would make them "persona non grata" both in their team and in the German public and they would still be critizised for it 50 years later. The riders involved would not get a renewed contract and would neither find any other team (it would be like a soccer player grabbing the ball from his team mate). Many are still mocking a rider who did this in olympics in 1984.

Moreau has lacked stability earlier. He has always ended up losing big on a few stages but this year he seems to be in good shape. He is at least a very attacking rider and might become a pain in the ass. I know that Armstrong does not view him as a dangerous competitor though.

parappa
07-12-2005, 07:48 AM
Today's a big day-2 Category 1 climbs and the mountaintop finish at Courchevel. Should be exciting!

Arnfinn Madsen
07-12-2005, 07:54 AM
Very exciting. Today probably either Moreau or Armstrong will catch the jersey, with a small possibility for Vinokourov.

Victor
07-12-2005, 11:46 AM
looks like armstrong put the smack down today. he set the pace up the final mountain and dropped all his main rivals. who said he needs help from his team?

parappa
07-12-2005, 11:49 AM
[ QUOTE ]
looks like armstrong put the smack down today. he set the pace up the final mountain and dropped all his main rivals. who said he needs help from his team?

[/ QUOTE ]

I felt this way last year as well. I dislike Armstrong, but you have to give him credit. He is a machine, and no one that can time trial can live with him in the mountains.

HesseJam
07-12-2005, 11:57 AM
So, Lance reconquered the maillot jaune. Looks as if he wins the TdF again.

Btw, the Telekom team is not largely critcized here in Germany. Most people here acknowledge the fact that Lance simply is the best rider in the field. Ullrich may be the greater talent but will power obviously makes the difference between him and Lance.

HesseJam
07-12-2005, 12:07 PM
Wait, that Rasmussen looks good. Only 38 secs behind Armstrong. Tomorrow is going to be another brutal day according to the stage profile.

namknils
07-12-2005, 12:42 PM
Honest question here, is Lance Armstrong recognized as the greatest cyclist ever? I would really like to know what Europeans think, since here in America nearly everyone adores Lance yet hardly anyone knows a thing about cycling.

I beleive that Lance has already won more Tour de France's than anyone else, correct? So do Europeans and others who really follow cycling regard him as the best of all time, or just the best out there right now?

on_thg
07-12-2005, 12:55 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Honest question here, is Lance Armstrong recognized as the greatest cyclist ever? I would really like to know what Europeans think, since here in America nearly everyone adores Lance yet hardly anyone knows a thing about cycling.

I believe that Lance has already won more Tour de France's than anyone else, correct? So do Europeans and others who really follow cycling regard him as the best of all time, or just the best out there right now?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not european, but I'll chip in a thought or two. First, you're correct, he's won more TdFs than anyone else.

As for the best of all time? I'd say probably not. My guess is that Eddy Merckx would get more votes. He won the TdF five times, and also rode a much more demanding schedule than Armstrong. I may be wrong, but I think that Lance himself has said that Merckx was the greatest.

You could certainly make the argument that Lance is the greatest, but it's really an apples and oranges comparison to put him up against riders from years gone by -- he's a TdF specialist, others were generalists.

jdl22
07-12-2005, 04:31 PM
It's fairly complicated. Lance is the best tour rider ever. The problem for him is that he doesn't ride to win other races. The other legends of the sport won the other big time races in their careers like the tours of Italy and Spain which are the other big stage races, there are also a number of "classics" which are 1 day races as well as shorter stage races that are still quite prestigious. Armstrong has won a couple of the shorter stage races and if I'm not mistaken won Liege Bastogne Liege which is one of the classics but other than that hasn't won much else. He did win the world championship back in the precancer days.

It's a bit like comparing Nolan Ryan to other pitchers. He has the record for strikeouts and no hitters (I think) but overall wasn't as solid as a lot of other pitchers and hence isn't considered by most fans as the best.

jdl22
07-12-2005, 05:02 PM
[ QUOTE ]
who said he needs help from his team?

[/ QUOTE ]

Surely you're joking. Lance's team came up absolutely huge today. They were very good and very important in him getting the yellow jersey and gaining time on his rivals.

Victor
07-12-2005, 05:13 PM
from what i read lance simply outpaced his rivals on the climb. he had no teammates in his break group.

Victor
07-12-2005, 05:22 PM
i think eddie merckx or miqueal indurain are considered better riders by most in cycling followers (esp. europeans).

the problem with lance is he only rides the tdf whereas merckx simply dominated every event (tour of spain, italy, the classics, etc for years. indurain was mostly a tdf rider too, but he won many others and set the hour record (since broken.)

jdl22
07-12-2005, 05:25 PM
The team rode everybody off his wheel except for the three guys he finished with. Ullrigh, Vini, and Basso got dropped while the team was still setting the pace at the front.

Read this article on velonews (http://www.velonews.com/tour2005/details/articles/8471.0.html)

edit: if you're in the US the stage is being replayed right now on OLN.

HesseJam
07-13-2005, 05:09 AM
I'd gp with the others and say that he is the best TdF rider ever. The way he is capable of pulling away uphill is almost unmatched. He is also a world class time trial rider. And he is a commanding team captain. These are the three tools you need to win the TdF. He is top notch in every category.

But as everyone else has said, he is a TdF specialist and doesn't ride many other classics. Eddie Merckx did and won them all. 5x TdF, 5x Giro d'Italia, 1 Tour of Spain and 15 of the most prestigious classics (Majors), 32 International Classics, 4 World Championships, World Hour Record Holder, etc.

Arnfinn Madsen
07-13-2005, 06:04 AM
Today I recommend you to take the eyes of the riders and watch the scenery (if the cameramen allows you /images/graemlins/smile.gif). The last climb is one of the most spectacular places I have ever been.

Wilbix
07-14-2005, 10:40 AM
Didn't get a chance to watch the stage today, but "watched" it on the internet. I'm surprised that Rasmussen didn't do anything. Seemed like a perfect stage for him to have another go and maybe even nip the yellow from Lance.

Arnfinn Madsen
07-14-2005, 10:49 AM
I don't think it was a perfect one. They say that he is not very good at the flat stretches so he would probably be catched. He is waiting for steeper climbs, I guess.

But today my favourite took the green jersey /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Go Hushovd! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Voltron87
07-14-2005, 11:01 AM
so armstrong and the top contenders all held pace in the peleton today?

parappa
07-14-2005, 11:05 AM
To stir the pot on this a bit: Eurosport were reporting during yesterday's stage that Merckx himself had said that he thought Armstrong was the best rider of all time, but of course that's a nice thing to say, Eddy's just a fan now and has his own opinion, etc. Still, I thought it was interesting coming from a man renowned for his competitiveness...

(sorry, I cannot find an internet source for the quote)

parappa
07-14-2005, 11:08 AM
[ QUOTE ]
so armstrong and the top contenders all held pace in the peleton today?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, Moncoutie did it for the French on Bastille day today. There were no significant changes in the overall.

Arnfinn Madsen
07-14-2005, 11:21 AM
Yes, Lance is a very good allround rider, even quite a good sprinter. Eddy Mercx competed in much more competitions to proove it while Lance makes sure he wins the most important one. I can't see any way (except accident) that he will not win this year too.

BaggyAnt
07-14-2005, 02:47 PM
Mercx is the best ever he used to win the tour on his own - He is also the only rider to have won the tour and come first in both the King of the Mountains and the green jersey in the same tour - an achievement that no one will ever match again. Kudos to Armstrong though he is the best tdf rider since him

Arnfinn Madsen
07-14-2005, 05:12 PM
For those watching, you can notice that breakaways at flat stages are more likely to be successful now than earlier in the Tour since:

-Quick Step has lost their mass sprinter Boonen and is thus less interested in keeping the peloton together.
-Lotto Domo seems to have tired riders.

Those two teams were mainly those who kept the peloton together in the first stages.

namknils
07-14-2005, 05:57 PM
Interesting stuff, thanks.

On a different note, does anyone know of a website with good photos from the tour. I would like to put web photo up as the background on my computer, but none of the pictures I find seem to be big enough. Right now I have a pretty cool picture of Lance going downhill with a teammate, but it's not very big. Anybody think they can help?

jdl22
07-14-2005, 10:10 PM
http://www.grahamwatson.com/

Graham Watson is the guy that takes most of the shots that are used for American media and websites like velonews.

jdl22
07-14-2005, 10:11 PM
Congrats on your boy getting in green!

I was rooting for him and quite pleased when he edged O'Grady at the line.

rusty JEDI
07-16-2005, 10:14 PM
So T-mobile makes an attack today with their 3 big guys but Lance fends them off again sans teammates.

My question is: Why does T-mobile have 3 super strong riders, and Lance doesnt have anyone like it? Yes he has some good teammates because you cant win without them, but why isnt there anyone good enough to insure he doesnt get isolated?

Someone said they split the money throughtout a team, so you would think that would attract another star to that team.

rJ

Arnfinn Madsen
07-16-2005, 10:19 PM
His intent was obviously to have strong climbers in his team and recruited based on this, but they have been a bit weaker than expected. The top-notch climbers however, is not interested in spending their season only helping Lance in TdF.

An anecdote from the last climb today:
A german spectator runs along Armstrong shouting: "You are alone". Lance looked around (seeing 1 rider from each team), and shouted back: "Everyone is alone". /images/graemlins/smile.gif

namknils
07-19-2005, 05:43 PM
So we're getting close to Paris, no more mountains left, when does this become "in the bag" for Lance? Can Ivan Basso do any more real damage before it's all over? Anyone else to worry about? What about Jan Ullrich, he's almost 6 full minutes behind, is he done for?

razor
07-19-2005, 09:21 PM
It's basically over now... it would take something weird and unusual for Lance to lose. No one is capable of taking much, if any, time out of Lance in the time trial and the other stages are too flat to attack Lance.

07-20-2005, 02:00 PM
Looks like T-Mobile's a complete bust. Kloden abandoned and according to ESPN.com Vinokurov is leaving the team at the end of the year. Says he wants to captain his own team.

Who will Discovery have as a team leader next year? Most of their guys are domestiques for Lance and are sufficiently weak in some area as to not be ideal overall contenders. Landis might start kicking himself for leaving.

Patrick del Poker Grande
07-20-2005, 02:08 PM
They keep talking up Yaroslav Popovych as the next Discovery team leader. He's a young guy, too. He's got the white jersey right now for best young rider by 6:28 and is in 12th overall, 14:27 behind Lance.

MEbenhoe
07-20-2005, 03:02 PM
there was actually talk of Vinokurov being the leader of discovery next year.

Drac
07-20-2005, 05:47 PM
[ QUOTE ]
there was actually talk of Vinokurov being the leader of discovery next year.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I don't think he's the best guy for the job I'd be very happy to see Vinny in Discovery colors next year. He's a darn fun guy to watch ride. I also really like Valverde...strong, young guy but probably under contract to Baleares for next year. They'd be stupid to let him go although Mancebo is their #1 and he's in 5th so maybe they won't be able to hang onto him. It doesn't look like any of the other Americans are primed to be a number one on a top team. Competitive, yes, but not top of the heap.

klagett
07-21-2005, 10:43 AM
I have a question. I know very little about bike racing first off.

I'm curious if Lance Armstrong doesn't win a stage would the other riders allow him to win the final race in paris if he still has a decent lead on the competition?

Arnfinn Madsen
07-21-2005, 11:07 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I have a question. I know very little about bike racing first off.

I'm curious if Lance Armstrong doesn't win a stage would the other riders allow him to win the final race in paris if he still has a decent lead on the competition?

[/ QUOTE ]

No way, to win in Paris is very prestigeous. For French riders it is their big dream, so expect a hard fight.

klagett
07-21-2005, 11:10 AM
ahh, Thanks I was just wondering as this is the first time i've really watched it daily.

jakethebake
07-21-2005, 11:19 AM
[ QUOTE ]
No way, to win in Paris is very prestigeous. For French riders it is their big dream, so expect a hard fight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hard fight? Against the French?

Clarkmeister
07-21-2005, 11:28 AM
[ QUOTE ]
there was actually talk of Vinokurov being the leader of discovery next year.

[/ QUOTE ]


Who cares? Once Lance is done, in the US the Tour will revert to the obscure status it deserves.

Arnfinn Madsen
07-21-2005, 11:36 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No way, to win in Paris is very prestigeous. For French riders it is their big dream, so expect a hard fight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hard fight? Against the French?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hard fight between many French riders and others. Lance will probably just cruise in behind without taking any risk.

Arnfinn Madsen
07-21-2005, 11:39 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
there was actually talk of Vinokurov being the leader of discovery next year.

[/ QUOTE ]


Who cares? Once Lance is done, in the US the Tour will revert to the obscure status it deserves.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif It does not deserve an obscure status. It is best sporting event that is being arranged. Not many sports where all nationalities cheer for all nationalities.

Clarkmeister
07-21-2005, 11:41 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
there was actually talk of Vinokurov being the leader of discovery next year.

[/ QUOTE ]


Who cares? Once Lance is done, in the US the Tour will revert to the obscure status it deserves.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif It does not deserve an obscure status. It is best sporting event that is being arranged. Not many sports where all nationalities cheer for all nationalities.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that they tried to rig the course this year to stop Lance from winning, in my mind, completely validates that it's a non-event.

Arnfinn Madsen
07-21-2005, 11:45 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
there was actually talk of Vinokurov being the leader of discovery next year.

[/ QUOTE ]


Who cares? Once Lance is done, in the US the Tour will revert to the obscure status it deserves.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif It does not deserve an obscure status. It is best sporting event that is being arranged. Not many sports where all nationalities cheer for all nationalities.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that they tried to rig the course this year to stop Lance from winning, in my mind, completely validates that it's a non-event.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Lol, they could easily make a course in which he would be chanceless, and they haven't, so this is a pointless accusation.

jakethebake
07-21-2005, 12:06 PM
[ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/smile.gif It does not deserve an obscure status. It is best sporting event that is being arranged. Not many sports where all nationalities cheer for all nationalities.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well your first mistake is calling it a sport... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Arnfinn Madsen
07-21-2005, 12:57 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/smile.gif It does not deserve an obscure status. It is best sporting event that is being arranged. Not many sports where all nationalities cheer for all nationalities.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well your first mistake is calling it a sport... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Still I advice you to go there even if you don't like the sport, I was there with a guy who was totally uninterested in cycling but he still thought it was an incredible experience.

jakethebake
07-21-2005, 01:01 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/smile.gif It does not deserve an obscure status. It is best sporting event that is being arranged. Not many sports where all nationalities cheer for all nationalities.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well your first mistake is calling it a sport... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Still I advice you to go there even if you don't like the sport...

[/ QUOTE ]

*sigh*

razor
07-21-2005, 04:03 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
there was actually talk of Vinokurov being the leader of discovery next year.

[/ QUOTE ]


Who cares? Once Lance is done, in the US the Tour will revert to the obscure status it deserves.

[/ QUOTE ]

watch yourself...

Arnfinn Madsen
07-21-2005, 04:21 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
there was actually talk of Vinokurov being the leader of discovery next year.

[/ QUOTE ]


Who cares? Once Lance is done, in the US the Tour will revert to the obscure status it deserves.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif It does not deserve an obscure status. It is best sporting event that is being arranged. Not many sports where all nationalities cheer for all nationalities.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that they tried to rig the course this year to stop Lance from winning, in my mind, completely validates that it's a non-event.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have to quote Lance then /images/graemlins/smile.gif:

"Long after my victories are forgotten the Tour will live on. This great race is greater than any of the riders."

jakethebake
07-21-2005, 04:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
there was actually talk of Vinokurov being the leader of discovery next year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who cares? Once Lance is done, in the US the Tour will revert to the obscure status it deserves.

[/ QUOTE ]

watch yourself...

[/ QUOTE ]

He's right though, regardless of what anyone thinks of the race personally.

Patrick del Poker Grande
07-21-2005, 04:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
there was actually talk of Vinokurov being the leader of discovery next year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who cares? Once Lance is done, in the US the Tour will revert to the obscure status it deserves.

[/ QUOTE ]

watch yourself...

[/ QUOTE ]

He's right though, regardless of what anyone thinks of the race personally.

[/ QUOTE ]
Anyone who wants it to continue to be strong here better hope Tyler Hamilton gets off the dope and pulls something strong. Floyd Landis? Who else? Nobody can come close to Lance, but you've got to have someone to at least carry some interest here.

razor
07-21-2005, 05:23 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
there was actually talk of Vinokurov being the leader of discovery next year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who cares? Once Lance is done, in the US the Tour will revert to the obscure status it deserves.

[/ QUOTE ]

watch yourself...

[/ QUOTE ]

He's right though, regardless of what anyone thinks of the race personally.

[/ QUOTE ]

remove the it deserves and I don't disagree with Clarkmeister's post.

The Tour has obviously received a lot of interest in the US over the last 7 years due to Lance's performances and will no doubt lose some of that interest with Lance retiring. However, interest in the tour had been increasing in the US prior to Lance's winning performances, so while interest will drop it won't disappear into total obscurity.

Patrick del Poker Grande
07-21-2005, 05:24 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The Tour has obviously received a lot of interest in the US over the last 7 years due to Lance's performances and will no doubt lose some of that interest with Lance retiring. However, interest in the tour had been increasing in the US prior to Lance's winning performances, so while interest will drop it won't disappear into total obscurity.

[/ QUOTE ]
... for at least 2 or 3 years.

rusty JEDI
07-21-2005, 05:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]


The fact that they tried to rig the course this year to stop Lance from winning, in my mind, completely validates that it's a non-event.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can someone elaborate on that? I hadnt heard of this accusation.

rJ

jojobinks
07-21-2005, 08:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
there was actually talk of Vinokurov being the leader of discovery next year.

[/ QUOTE ]


Who cares? Once Lance is done, in the US the Tour will revert to the obscure status it deserves.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif It does not deserve an obscure status. It is best sporting event that is being arranged. Not many sports where all nationalities cheer for all nationalities.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that they tried to rig the course this year to stop Lance from winning, in my mind, completely validates that it's a non-event.

[/ QUOTE ]

kinda like messing with the masters to make it harder for tiger to win?

Arnfinn Madsen
07-22-2005, 05:14 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
there was actually talk of Vinokurov being the leader of discovery next year.

[/ QUOTE ]


Who cares? Once Lance is done, in the US the Tour will revert to the obscure status it deserves.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif It does not deserve an obscure status. It is best sporting event that is being arranged. Not many sports where all nationalities cheer for all nationalities.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that they tried to rig the course this year to stop Lance from winning, in my mind, completely validates that it's a non-event.

[/ QUOTE ]

kinda like messing with the masters to make it harder for tiger to win?

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Living its own life this claim now. It is completely ridicolous. This years course suits Armstrong perfectly. Many steep hills near finishes (if they would be less steep it would benefit other riders) and the opening time trial was longer than usual (big Armstrong benefit). In addition the second last stage is a hilly time trial just as designed to make Armstrong win the whole thing.

Is it rigged in Armstrong's favor? No, since the course was almost finished more than a year ago and then everybody believed Armstrong would not go in 2005.

Arnfinn Madsen
07-24-2005, 03:37 PM
Yooooohoooooo!!!!!!11

I can keep my avatar! /images/graemlins/ooo.gif /images/graemlins/cool.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/shocked.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/cool.gif

WTG, Thor!

razor
07-24-2005, 04:13 PM
congrats

jdl22
07-24-2005, 06:24 PM
Congrats man.

You can thank team discovery and the gc contenders for not reeling in breakaways and not getting in the break. I was happy to see long breakaways making it once Hushovd was dressed in green. Makes it a lot easier to defend.

Overall this tour was a bit boring compared to past tours. It was just Armstrong putting down attacks and grinding out time gains. Pretty good from a strategic point of view, especially the collapse of T-Mobile and their 3 pronged attack. Lacked a big exciting moment or stage. Next years should be amazing and wide open.

Anybody know who Discovery will use as their top GC man for the Vuelta? My guess is Azevedo. Be interesting to see if they can get the grand tour sweep with a different rider in each one. Don't think that's ever been done. Will be difficult with Liberty Seguros and Euskaltel looking for a good showing after not having such a good tour.

edit: You should use this image from the final podium:
http://www.letour.fr/PHOTOS/TDF/2005/2100/live_26.jpg

Arnfinn Madsen
07-25-2005, 08:06 AM
Thanks, and congrats on Lance!

Next years tour will be incredibly exciting since Ullrich is a clearly better time trial rider than his challengers (Basso, Vinokourov, Rasmussen etc.). Thus he will be ahead of them when it gets into the mountains. He is not the best climber but still a very good climber so expect a lot of attacks at him and him battling with all he has, to defend it.

Patrick del Poker Grande
07-25-2005, 11:38 AM
I'm calling Basso. He's improving in the time trials and we've seen what he can do in the mountains. Oh yeah and he's been second the last two years...

I can't believe how Rasmussen completely just fell apart on the time trial. It's really too bad. It was expected that Jan would pass him anyway, but the way he went out was just sad.