Big flaws in my line here?

[petvan]

Thinking I should have pushed the flop or folded? This is 4 hands into an MTT so basically no reads.

Hand converter not liking this hand much either.

NL Hold'em Trny:13545083 Level:1 Blinds (10/15) - Thursday, June 30, 20:43:41 EDT 2005
Table Multi-Table(376405) Table #122 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: 1 ( $1090 )
Seat 2: 2 ( $985 )
Seat 3: Hero ( $1000 )
Seat 4: 4 ( $985 )
Seat 5: 5 ( $970 )
Seat 6: 6 ( $975 )
Seat 7: Villian ( $985 )
Seat 8: 8 ( $955 )
Seat 9: 9 ( $1000 )
Seat 10: 10 ( $1055 )
Trny:13545083 Level:1
Blinds (10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Ad Kd ]
utg1 folds.
utg2 folds.
mp1 folds.
mp2 folds.
Hero raises [60].
lp folds.
co folds.
button folds.
Villian calls [50].
bb folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Td, Qh, 2d ]
villian checks.
Hero bets [90]. (trying to take it right now)
Villian [180].
Hero calls [90]. (pushes or folds instead?)
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7s ]
Villian bets [500].
Hero folds.
Villian does not show cards.

Thoughts? (sorry for bad hand conversion)

Pete

[xLukex]

[ QUOTE ]
Thinking I should have pushed the flop or folded? This is 4 hands into an MTT so basically no reads.

Hand converter not liking this hand much either.

NL Hold'em Trny:13545083 Level:1 Blinds (10/15) - Thursday, June 30, 20:43:41 EDT 2005
Table Multi-Table(376405) Table #122 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: 1 ( $1090 )
Seat 2: 2 ( $985 )
Seat 3: Hero ( $1000 )
Seat 4: 4 ( $985 )
Seat 5: 5 ( $970 )
Seat 6: 6 ( $975 )
Seat 7: Villian ( $985 )
Seat 8: 8 ( $955 )
Seat 9: 9 ( $1000 )
Seat 10: 10 ( $1055 )
Trny:13545083 Level:1
Blinds (10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Ad Kd ]
utg1 folds.
utg2 folds.
mp1 folds.
mp2 folds.
Hero raises [60].
lp folds.
co folds.
button folds.
Villian calls [50].
bb folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Td, Qh, 2d ]
villian checks.
Hero bets [90]. (trying to take it right now)
Villian [180].
Hero calls [90]. (pushes or folds instead?)
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7s ]
Villian bets [500].
Hero folds.
Villian does not show cards.

Thoughts? (sorry for bad hand conversion)

Pete

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure what others think of this line, but if you can rebuy, push. If you can't, call the flop raise and fold the turn.

[billyjex]

There are no big flaws in your line. This is a tough overcard situation where you can't really do much about. You played it fine IMO.

The flop is foldable but the minraise gives you too great of odds. I call and see the turn, your fold is good.

[nightlyraver]

You must fold the turn to this overbet. Let's look at a possible range here (and this is a wide range): AA-77, AQ-AT, KQ-KT, QJ, QT, and J9. Even with this HUGE range, you are about 25%-35% to win this hand against almost all of these. You are 40% to win against 99 and 88 and a 4:1 favorite against J9. These last 3 holdings are clearly the least likely holdings. Therefore, the pot is not offering you good odds to draw and it's pretty clear that villian will not fold given the huge turn bet.

On the flop, you are only a favorite against AQ, AT, KQ, KT, 99, 88, QJ and J9. Also, you are 58% favorite at best with this range. We can also probably eliminate many of these given the miniraise. Therefore, I think pushing is a bad option on the flop as well.

If it were me, I'm playing this hand exactly how you played it. Maybe I bet a little more on the flop.

[WakeHeel]

So he check raises you the minimum amount? Min raises are usually a weak play. I might consider coming back over the top for another 300 or so. Or as you did, I might just call and see the turn. Depends on my read.

Your fold on the turn is certainly appropriate. He's clearly put you on a draw and is shutting you out.

[petvan]

Thanks all,

I struggle with draw play early, or at least think I do and overall think I am too tight. This hand had me wondering if this was one of those spots I should open up on the flop given I had some decent draws.

Thanks for all the comments, 2+2 is really helping me develop a halfway decent game ;-)

P

[Scooterdoo]

I would play this exactly the same way you did it.

[Flopzilla]

I think Ida RR allin on the flop here.

9 hearts for the nut flush,
four jacks for the nut straight,
six aces/kings for TPTK, equals possibly 19 outs on the turn, another 19 on the river.
And I would double up if I made it.

'Course I am known for bein a lil confused... /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[allenciox]

Sorry, but this is incorrect. I think your hand range is reasonable, and I don't discount any of those hands given the minraise. But you are way more than 25-35% to win against that hand range. As you mentioned, you are ahead of AQ, AT, KQ, KT, 99, 88, 77, QJ, and J9 --- in fact over 55% ahead of these. By the way, you state you are only 40% likely to win against 99 and 88, it is more like 63%. In that hand, you are also ahead of KK (55% win), KJ (78% win), AJ (88% win). In fact the ONLY hands that are ahead of you in that subset are:
AA(46%)
QT(42%)
TT(33%)
QQ(33%).

I don't think the minimum raise means anything other than he wants to get a handle on what you have, he may fold to a reraise all-in. For any reasonable range of hands he may have here, I doubt that you are any less than 50-55%. Even if he calls your reraise all-in, the weighted frequency of hands he would have to make that bet could make you no more than a slight underdog.

(By the way, all my percentages come from twodimes).

I push this after his reraise on the flop --- in a heartbeat.

[Danny H.]

The only problem is only 13 of those outs are outs we know will win, the others we don't know. I'd fold too, early in a tourney like that he can comeback and risking that many chips that early is probably a bad decision with just a draw (even if it is the nuts).

[nightlyraver]

I think that you simply misread my post. The first set of stats were in regard to the play at the turn. For example, you are correct that the QT is only 42% on the flop, but it jumps to 75% once you hit the turn.

I did however leave out a couple hands in the second paragraph where I address the flop play since I started typing real fast (the boss was on his way up). You are correct, Hero is ahead of a larger range, but I'm not sure that adding those hands really dictates a push. The betting sequence simply does not suggest that the hands that we most likely want to see will be flipped up. Further, the hands that are way behind but may put more money in the pot later will fold. Moreover, I'd like to be a bit better than a coinflip to push 'em all in. It doesn't have to be much more, but a bit better than in this hand. However, your suggestion of a push is certainly not a terrible move and probably my 2nd best choice.

[Scooterdoo]

Opps, didn't realize you had the heart draw, was reading it too quickly. Would have come over the top of the raiser on the flop 100% of the time.