Majors in college

[pyroponic]

Hello, i'm new to this forum, and I have a question that may or may not be relative to the forum. I currently am a student at The University of Michigan, majoring in Economics. In addition to this, I have also decided to major in Philosophy and Mathematics (the additional classes for Math is very few because so much it overlaps with Economics).

Basically my question is, is that now it will take me 5 1/2 years to graduate, whereas if I got just an Economics degree I could graduate much earlier. With the three majors, though, I can afford to take a more relaxed class load (say 12 credit hours instead of 16), so I can play poker, work out, drink, etc.

I know these other majors will probably serve little or no purpose later on in life (maybe might help for graduate school), i'm basically taking them to satisfy my intellectual curiosities and nothing else. Also i'm starting to make a signicant amount of money playing poker so I don't feel like i'm in a hurry to graduate.

Any opinions on what I should do would be appreciated.

[daryn]

seems like you're doing fine. you know what you want to do, and you're doing it. doesn't seem like you're having any problems, from your post.

[pyroponic]

Well that's good to hear, it will take me a lot of extra time and money, but to me I think the better educated you are the better person you are. Plus i'm young and I won't have this opportunity when i'm older. My friends and family, however, think the extra stuff i'm doing is just a waste.

[daryn]

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My friends and family, however, think the extra stuff i'm doing is just a waste.

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Knowledge is, indeed, that which, next to virtue, truly and essentially raises one man above another.

- Joseph Addison

[Aytumious]

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My friends and family, however, think the extra stuff i'm doing is just a waste.

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Knowledge is, indeed, that which, next to virtue, truly and essentially raises one man above another.

- Joseph Addison

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A friend in college graduated in five years with seven majors. A truly fascinating young man to converse with.

[vulturesrow]

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i'm basically taking them to satisfy my intellectual curiosities and nothing else.

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Thats more than sufficient reason right there. I certainly wish I wouldve had this option when I was in college. No reason to rush off into the "real world".

[Jeff W]

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...it will take me a lot of extra time and money, but to me I think the better educated you are the better person you are.

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Are your parents paying for your schooling? If so, is the extra money substantial? If not, have you considered the ramifications of increasing your debt?

I majored in physics and forwent a second major in math. In my case, I could not afford to go to school for another year.

Consider choosing one major and supplementing your main studies with substantial coursework from the other two majors. IMO, extra majors are vanities.

[pyroponic]

I agree that the extra majors are vanities. My parents are paying for about half of school (for now anyways). One of my main decisions for doing this is because of poker I will not be graduating $50,000 in debt but more likely with no debt and probably $75,000 in assets. Since my parents will probably not help me for my last semester or two i'd probably have to shoulder the cost, which i'm ready to do if necessary.

As far as extra classes go, for the Math major all I would have to take is Differential Equations, Modern Abstract Algebra, Advanced Calculus, and maybe 2-3 classes of my choosing (most likely risk theory, acturary science, etc.) The Philosophy major on the other hand is a substantial amount of coursework.

Anyways, I appreciate all your guys' advice on this, I think I am going to definately major in at least Economics and Philosophy. I'm on the fence on that Math one, since it's not exactly my favorite subject, but i've taken up to Calculus III and Linear Algebra so I feel like I should go ahead and the whole thing.

[pzhon]

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Hello, i'm new to this forum, and I have a question that may or may not be relative to the forum. I currently am a student at The University of Michigan, majoring in Economics. In addition to this, I have also decided to major in Philosophy and Mathematics (the additional classes for Math is very few because so much it overlaps with Economics).

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I'm skeptical of the value of the additional majors. I majored in both mathematics and economics, I did well in each major, and I was prepared to go to a top graduate school in either area. However, most of the students I have observed trying to major in several different things just practiced doing a half-assed job at everything, and would have gotten a better education with only one major.

It may impress other students to have multiple majors, but fulfilling the minimum requirements is not impressive. The requirements are usually set extermely low to allow the "admission mistakes" to graduate, or they assume you spent a lot of time doing a great job in a few courses, not just passing those classes. It is much more impressive to me when a student takes a graduate-level class outside of his major, puts in the effort to make up for any gaps in his background, and does well.

From one perspective, the point of college is to learn how to think. With three majors, do you learn how to think three times? Of course not. By the way, you could write better. That is another thing you are expected to learn in college, regardless of your major.

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I know these other majors will probably serve little or no purpose later on in life (maybe might help for graduate school), i'm basically taking them to satisfy my intellectual curiosities and nothing else.

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Don't discount the possibility that taking 5 1/2 years to graduate and getting 3 majors will hurt your chances of getting into a good graduate school. You may be used to hearing about undergraduate admissions, where it is good to demonstrate how well-rounded you are. Graduate admissions are done by department, and being well-rounded is not a clear plus, particularly if it came at the expense of a deeper understanding of your major.

[pzhon]

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As far as extra classes go, for the Math major all I would have to take is Differential Equations, Modern Abstract Algebra, Advanced Calculus, and maybe 2-3 classes of my choosing (most likely risk theory, acturary science, etc.)

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As a mathematician, that doesn't sound like a major course of study. I expect real mathematics majors to take more than this in their first two years of being mathematics majors. You should have a year-long class on real analysis, a year-long class on topology, and classes on complex analysis and perhaps discrete math, number theory, or mathematical logic. Otherwise, you haven't covered the basics. In fact, in some schools, students in other majors are required to take more mathematics than what you have listed.

[pyroponic]

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As far as extra classes go, for the Math major all I would have to take is Differential Equations, Modern Abstract Algebra, Advanced Calculus, and maybe 2-3 classes of my choosing (most likely risk theory, acturary science, etc.)

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As a mathematician, that doesn't sound like a major course of study. I expect real mathematics majors to take more than this in their first two years of being mathematics majors. You should have a year-long class on real analysis, a year-long class on topology, and classes on complex analysis and perhaps discrete math, number theory, or mathematical logic. Otherwise, you haven't covered the basics. In fact, in some schools, students in other majors are required to take more mathematics than what you have listed.

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I highly suspected this was the case. Just those classes alone I felt would be suffering enough, maybe i'm better off dropping the Math major and getting the Philosophy major. Possibly take a few other side courses to supplement the Economics major, thanks for the input.

[The Dude]

As long as taking that much time and money is reasonably within your means, I think it's fine. You can always decide to drop one or two of the majors later if you decide you don't want them.

[Siegmund]

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As far as extra classes go, for the Math major all I would have to take is Differential Equations, Modern Abstract Algebra, Advanced Calculus, and maybe 2-3 classes of my choosing (most likely risk theory, acturary science, etc.)

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As a mathematician, that doesn't sound like a major course of study. I expect real mathematics majors to take more than this in their first two years of being mathematics majors. You should have a year-long class on real analysis, a year-long class on topology, and classes on complex analysis and perhaps discrete math, number theory, or mathematical logic. Otherwise, you haven't covered the basics.

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What we have here is a nice illustration of the difference between qualifying for a major in something and having a thorough grounding in something. Or, perhaps, the difference between having two majors on one bachelor's degree and earning two bachelor's degrees. (The latter requires 20 or so more semester hours than the former, and tends to mean the recipient took the full set of electives in each discipline, instead of double-counting a bunch of courses applicable to each field.)

pzhon will cringe: but the OP's list is spot on for the actual requirements for the BS in mathematics at your typical public university. (Well, the OP's list plus a course in proof-writing that's a prereq for the abstract algebra, and the requirement is 6 to 8 upper division electives, but it was implied he was counting economics courses to fulfill all but 2 or 3 of that total.)

Real analysis was 600-level but the seniors who liked advanced calculus (which really ought to be renamed "warmed-over real analysis" since there's not one speck of calculus in it until the last third of the second semester) took it and made up half my class when I had it. Complex analysis likewise, except without the seniors unless they had taken real as juniors. Topology was an undergraduate elective but a (much!) less popular one than numerical analysis, mathematical statistics, or various advanced computer science courses.

The people who had a love for the subject tended to take everything that was offered - but those tended to be the same people who went on to get their MS right away. I daresay there are very, very few who don't have their master's but do have what pzhon considers all of the basics.

[LargeCents]

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Hello, i'm new to this forum, and I have a question that may or may not be relative to the forum. I currently am a student at The University of Michigan, majoring in Economics. In addition to this, I have also decided to major in Philosophy and Mathematics (the additional classes for Math is very few because so much it overlaps with Economics).

Basically my question is, is that now it will take me 5 1/2 years to graduate, whereas if I got just an Economics degree I could graduate much earlier. With the three majors, though, I can afford to take a more relaxed class load (say 12 credit hours instead of 16), so I can play poker, work out, drink, etc.

I know these other majors will probably serve little or no purpose later on in life (maybe might help for graduate school), i'm basically taking them to satisfy my intellectual curiosities and nothing else. Also i'm starting to make a signicant amount of money playing poker so I don't feel like i'm in a hurry to graduate.

Any opinions on what I should do would be appreciated.

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Do it.

Speaking as a person with a B.S. in math, who kinda "hurried it" under pressure from various directions (program director, faculty advisor(s), classmates, family, self, friends, etc, etc). I knew I wasn't really ready to graduate and enter professional life, emotionally, but I wanted to make the money that other professional graduates in my field were making. I wanted the esteem of being a professional. I wanted the security of having an income, and the benefit of having a decent place to live and money not being a problem.

It backfired. I ended up in a career path that I absolutely hated. I had invested so much time, effort, resources into the path I chose, I felt I couldn't "backtrack". Eventually it all ended in a blaze of glory with me simply not showing up for work anymore and kinda just hating the world. lol. I tried to go back to school, but the magic was gone, so to speak. I just had no drive or confidence anymore. I quit school after the first semester back. Since then I've held just about every shitty job known to man, and I've been spit out the bottom of the career food chain. I blame it on not taking more time to figure out what I really wanted to do, regardless of various pressures to graduate.

As for the "triple major", I'm not a hiring manager, but is it really neccessary? I came up one class short of a couple minors I was nursing along, but I don't think an extra major or minor on the resume really woulda made a difference. If you end up one credit shy of your math degree, you can STILL talk about the math classes you took and the knowlege you have. I wouldn't worry about the listing of the majors on your diploma, except your Economics major.

[VBCurtis]

I had your exact interests, but got only the math degree because it had the least-onerous GenEd req's, and I wanted to maximize my time spent in Phil and Econ courses of my choosing. My advice to you depends on what you see as your future-- graduate work? MBA? Random-job while poker assists with the bills?

Graduate work in Econ benefits greatly from a "generic" Bachelor's in math of the type you described. It won't seem like it at the time, but Advanced Calc (nee baby real analysis) will prove applicable in the PhD Qual courses in Econ. Real Analysis (graduate version.. double the fun of baby course for BS degree) pays off also, but only if you do something quantitative in Econ graduate school. The math major itself isn't important-- Econ grad programs will want to know what you've taken, and won't care that you did or did not satisfy req's for a degree.

I minored in Philosophy, reasoning that I wanted to learn how to think, and what better place than college Phil classes? However, I found the req's for a Phil degree included quite a lot of material I wasn't interested in, but the minor was very flexible in terms of letting me take only what I was interested in (mathematical logic, phil of science, analytic phil, etc).
For now, take precisely the courses outside of econ req's that you want to take.. if your interest continues in those fields, consider a second major. There is not enough reward for a double major to make a decision about one until the last possible minute-- I'm two classes short of BA Econ, and have never regretted the laziness involved in not taking those two. I learned all I wanted, and dodged the courses that didn't interest me. If grad school isn't in your plans, the extra math probably isn't worth it for you, since you lack passion for mathematics that really helps in advanced calculus (the only really challenging course in BS math at public uni).
Side note-- how does adding majors decrease your course load per term?

[pzhon]

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pzhon will cringe: but the OP's list is spot on for the actual requirements for the BS in mathematics at your typical public university.

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I am well aware that typical public universities have very low standards. (I have friends who teach there, and I have other friends who received degrees from schools primarily known for their football teams.) If you want to get a real education in any area, it isn't enough to meet the minimum requirements.

It is possible to get a great education at a low-quality state school. In some sense, it's more of a challenge to do this than at a school with higher expectations of its students.

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Real analysis was 600-level but the seniors who liked advanced calculus...

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The course numbering systems and the names or contents of courses vary tremendously from school to school. A course covering the same material out of the same textbook may be called an undergraduate class at one school, and a graduate class at another.

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The people who had a love for the subject tended to take everything that was offered - but those tended to be the same people who went on to get their MS right away. I daresay there are very, very few who don't have their master's but do have what pzhon considers all of the basics.

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At most top universities in the US, the standards are simply higher for the BS, and almost no one gets an MS in mathematics.