Point Count Systems for Poker?

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Everyone,
On the following web page, someone named Turmel touts his "point count" system.

Though I don't yet know what it looks like, I do agree with his description of the "7-step jitterbug" as I see this sort of thing in plenty of mathematical and computing literature as well as some spots in poker literature.

So bottom line, anyone know if any Poker Point Counts systems are effective, both from a profit and mental efficiency standpoint?

Clearly, the idea is based on card counting in name. No idea if it's a valid Poker idea though.

I have seen some rudiments of the idea, such as Roy West's 2 1/2 point count system for playing straights in stud.

Sincerely,
AA

[bernie]

a point count system will not work in holdem for the simple reason you wont have enough cards seen to make it worthwhile...

in stud, there are many other card values available, so its more plausible to use...

b

[Mano]

Mason wrote an interesting essay on point count systems. Here is a link:
http://www.twoplustwo.com/forums/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=books&Number=32457&For um=books&Words=point%20count&Match=Entire%20Phrase &Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=32448&Sea rch=true#Post32457

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Mano,
Thanks for the link. Guess that sums it up quite nicely.

Sincerely,
AA

[758219]

If one is first in from late position K9 has much more value than T9s? If one runs some turbo sims one sees that K9 is not much better than T9s, that they rate around equal. In sims, X9 hands in steal cases rate around equal, with the exception of A9.

So how is K9 much better? K9 can beat only K8, QJ that are going to be at the end only if they have flopped some draw, and that happens often only if they play it passively; they shouldn't, as they can get at least the ace-high and lower hands to fold often enough. If the flop is K82, the king has a nine kicker; not bad vs. BB's KXs, in those cases he has a suited King. If the flop is 982, the nine has a ten kicker (worth something only if BB called preflop with e.g. 95), while the K9 has a King kicker, but that is an isolated case, that both have a nine, but it does show value. KT2 is one case, K92 is another case. If one thinks only these, one should think that K9 is mucho better. But it's mere king value at river is often/usually overated, as is the problem of being dominated, in these cases. Sims don't think K9 is much better, but it likely would be different vs. calling stations (and maniacs, but then one perhaps wouldn't play T9s here - I probably would, as I would get rich if I flopped something and win it). That can be done over with only by betting the river also, but they will likely call it with a mere ace there, so it has little value with K9; T9s is different, that often (support semi-)bluffing. K9 is likely much better only vs. calling stations, and elsewhere if the one who plays T9s doesn't play it strong enough on the flop and after.