Playing against Maniacs?

[manku]

In my home games, there are a couple of players who LOVE to bet and thinking folding is a cardinal sin. Since most games are high limit or PL Omaha8, players like these can be very dangerous because they'll bet garbage as well as the nuts the same way.

Yesterday, while a very nice winning session, I made what I feel were some poor laydowns, esp. late in game when it was shorthanded (5 players). 5-10 blinds, stacks range from $800-2000.

Omaha8/PL

Flop comes: A-6-9. I have A-6 in hand in button. Can't recall other cards, but wasn't important.

Maniac bets pot, $40, solid player calls. I fold.

On showdown, maniac shows a pair of kings in his hand. He obviously loses.

Omaha8:

Flop 6-8-9. I have A-3-8-9 in MP. Solid player bets $20, I call, Maniac raises pot. Solid player folds. Normally, I call, but as it was last hand of night, I fold. Maniac turns over 7-10.

Question: Do I just wait for monster hands, which he'll payoff anyway or do I try and mix it up, perhaps increasing my total winnings but with a much higher win/loss deviation?

Manku

[Louie Landale]

Rightfully or wrongfully, for whatever reason, it appears that you cannot get to the showdown in these games without near the nuts. It would be a DISASTER if you routinely called with the non-nut hands early just to fold them later when the bets get big. Since these live guys are going to keep betting, then you had better not go out on a limb on the flop; since almost always that money is gone. If they stop betting on the turn unless they have the goods, then you CAN make a "weak" flop call, figuring to get to the showdown fairly often cheaply when the fish doesn't have anything.

Extrapolating: if you are only going to play nut hands on the flop then you had better not call pre-flop loosely; or THAT money is also gone.

Extrapolating more: If you are only investing with nut hands, then you probably do better just checking and calling figuring the fish will give you more money by betting than by calling; and you also protect yourself against real raises.

Having said that, I will say that a marginal two-way hand HEADS-UP against one of these guys is not "out on a limb"; its a real great hand. In your last example, you had the 2nd nut low draw and a "fair" high (considering the competion). The only way you are completly toast is if he has a 4-card hand to beat you like A27T or A266; this is extremely unlikely for this guy. There is just TOO much chance that you have the best high AND the best low aginst THIS player. I'd have been tempted to go to the mat against him with that.

- Louie

[manku]

I, too, was SORELY tempted on that last hand. However, having gotten spanked for $600+ beats each of the previous two sessions on the FINAL hand of the night, I decided I wasn't going to let that ruin my night again (Even though I ended in the plus column both nights).

Probably not the smartest decision, long term, but I felt I needed to do it. Psychologically speaking, that is.

Earlier in the evening, I most likely call heads-up.

Manku