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11t
06-30-2005, 08:57 PM
I am curiosu what people normally do in situations like this. I really cannot justify calling to see a flop due to how small my stack size is and with the ss limping UTG I know I am going to get called if I push.

Assume UTG is of sufficient donkitude that AA can be excluded from his range of holdings but that he is most likely coming along for the ride. Is this line acceptable?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t575)
UTG+1 (t1450)
MP1 (t1815)
MP2 (t2470)
MP3 (t1385)
CO (t1340)
Hero (t1115)
SB (t1440)
BB (t1910)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls t100, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls t100, MP2 calls t100, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1115</font>

bluefeet
06-30-2005, 09:02 PM
pushing is better than calling IMO - UTG will probably come along for the right...hopefully neither MP will want to risk any more of thier healthy stacks. personally, i'd be just as inclined to fold. you could end up 3-handed just as often as picking it up PF. you just cleared the blinds, you'll have an opportunity or two to lead out pushing with better (or worse /images/graemlins/wink.gif)

suited_ace
07-01-2005, 12:47 AM
Calling is not an option, and I wouldn't be very happy to push against against 3 players already in the pot + blinds.

bkbluedevil
07-01-2005, 01:02 AM
Pushing&gt;&gt;&gt;Calling

What kind of a flop are you hoping for by putting about 10 percent of your stack in with people still left to act????

adanthar
07-01-2005, 01:04 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Calling is not an option

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure it is. There are 3 people in this pot plus the blinds, two of them have nice stacks and you have position. If UTG was a little less of a donkey, go ahead and hit a set.

Since he's a moron and you'll be getting 2:1, pushing is better. But I'd at least think about it.

edit: If the blinds were capable of a PVS, I would actually be more likely to call, and then call a push.

Freudian
07-01-2005, 01:06 AM
Most of the time one of them have a PP better than 77. So I fold.

11t
07-01-2005, 01:11 AM
I rarely see people limping with 88+ when the blinds are at 50/100

bkbluedevil
07-01-2005, 01:40 AM
Adanthar

With all due respect (I like your posts more than anyone's) I don't like this advice. The other two stacks don't come into play because you are shorter than they. Whether they have 1300 or 2200 doesn't matter. Calling comes very close to violating the 5/10 rule which I try to play by. If you had 1500 I'd give calling more of a thought.

I didn't think of a PVS from behind but thats intresting. Still I think they would likely have two overs and I'd rather the 450 that is in the pot now then run a flip for my stack. Even if your a 2 to 1 (1 overcard) I think you're about as good off just taking whats in the pot EV wise plus it reduces variance. I don't think you'll see someone do this with two cards lower than 7.

Just some stuff to think about.

adanthar
07-01-2005, 09:27 AM
I think this is probably a high variance play that's still +cEV solely because of the number of callers. Let's put it this way: if the flop comes with a 7 and any Broadway I am probably doubling up here due to the range of hands I put them all on (someone will hit TPGK and we all know what happens with that on Party*.) I believe pushing is more +EV, but only because I know UTG does not have a monster; if UTG could have aces, I'd limp because frankly, I'm not folding*. (I would with, say, 900 behind, so it's close. But with 3 people in, position and not *quite* violating 5/10, I'd take the chance.)

Also, if you *knew* someone would PVS (and UTG had a chance of folding)...well, you're 66% against a random hand.

*I actually wrote my first post thinking this was that rare Party SNG with limpers. I don't know Stars much if at all and that may swing it towards a fold.