$109s - Is This Too Aggro ITM?

[Unarmed]

Button is quite reasonable. My image is decent.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (3 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t4600)
BB (t1200)
Button (t4200)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif.

Button min-raises and I push.

[xLukex]

[ QUOTE ]
Button is quite reasonable. My image is decent.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (3 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t4600)
BB (t1200)
Button (t4200)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif.

Button min-raises and I push.

[/ QUOTE ]

With the blinds so high, I can nod my head to this.

If the blinds are 100/200 or 150/300, chances are I call/fold and play accordingly postflop.

[Chaostracize]

I do the same. You can't call and you sure as hell aren't folding.

[treeofwisdom7]

[ QUOTE ]
I do the same. You can't call and you sure as hell aren't folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

mini raise means strong or weak hand right. whats wrong with a call. you got plenty of chips and even if you put a bet on flop you still would have chips to fight for 2nd..
why put your whole game on a coin flip, if your lucky to have a coin flip.

[Newt_Buggs]

Pushing over the top with small pockets is almost standard for me ITM, and especially in this situatoin. I've started to realize that a miniraise like this usually means "I'll take care of shorty with my marginal hand and you can come along too if you'de like." Its just another manifestation of the myth that everyone should gang up on the short stack to try to take him out. Chances are he will drop something like A8 if you push and give you credit for a big hand, especially if the BB folds.

[jedi]

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I do the same. You can't call and you sure as hell aren't folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

mini raise means strong or weak hand right. whats wrong with a call. you got plenty of chips and even if you put a bet on flop you still would have chips to fight for 2nd..
why put your whole game on a coin flip, if your lucky to have a coin flip.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't have that many chips. Everyone is short stacked. Calling bleeds your chips down. Pushing at least gets you fold equity and forces your opponent to a decision. Does his 66 look good to defend with vs a possible overpair or AK? Or does his KQ look good enough to defend with vs. possible coin-flip? If you call and make a bet on the flop and have to fold, you're down to 3 BB territory now.

I'd just push. You're less than 10xBB, seems standard.

[freemoney]

anything but pushing is really insane.

[The Yugoslavian]

Pedal to the metal batch.

Or as Raptor might say, 'Allah Akbar!!!!!!!!!!!!!'

Yugoslav

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
mini raise means strong or weak hand right.

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good read /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[citanul]

Sadly this is another spot where knowledge of the opponent is paramount. Many players who are otherwise "reasonable" do stuff like "well, with large blinds, I'll miniraise exactly AA-JJ or so." On the other hand, another set of opponents who are reasonable miniraise at the short stack with say, the top 20 or 30 or 40% of all hands they are dealt. These players may or may not be capable of folding such a hand to a push in this spot. All very much dependent on what type of reasonable the guy is.

Against almost all opponents ever, I push here. Sometimes even if the only small raise I've seen a guy make has been AA or KK, I push anyway. But that's just me, I play shitty poker.

citanul

[The Yugoslavian]

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Sadly this is another spot where knowledge of the opponent is paramount.


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So you said that...then:

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Against almost all opponents ever, I push here. Sometimes <font color="red">blah, blah</font> I push anyway.

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Umm.....nice return to the forum /images/graemlins/confused.gif.

Yugoslav
/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Scuba Chuck]

I guess I'll be the only dissenter here.

Generally speaking, a mini-raise like this means one of two things.
1) Villain is willing to challenge shorty - but not biggie (hero)
2) Villain has a hand he wants to battle with, no matter who.

I don't think pushing here is good stack management. Part of winning these damn things is paying attention to the other stacks. Here's a great example. It is VERY likely that shorty is going to play this hand. Assuming he does, the outcome will be one of two things, both beneficial to hero. If shorty wins, Hero is now the reigning big stack. If shorty loses, well, you're now HU with a great stack.

But, if you push, and there's a showdown, there's an enormous equity shift to the small stack. Flame away.

Scuba

[citanul]

oh come on yugo, my post contained 2 things:

1) what i believe to be proper play and way of making the decision
2) an admission that i routinely don't play properly.

i'm not really back yet though. while i might post some today, and play some today, i won't be back for real until just around the main event starting.

citanul

[Unarmed]

Good to have ya back Citanul, even if its only on a sort of basis for the time being. /images/graemlins/grin.gif You've been missed.

I like Scuba's thoughts here, and that's the reason I posted this. Anyway, everyone called, biggy had TT, and he took it down.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
Good to have ya back Citanul, even if its only on a sort of basis for the time being. /images/graemlins/grin.gif You've been missed.

I like Scuba's thoughts here, and that's the reason I posted this. Anyway, everyone called, biggy had TT, and he took it down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice to see that even on a $109 that people still make many errors. IMO, it was a mistake for smally to call you're push.

[citanul]

well, if shorty knows:

1) that button was just raising to get alone with shorty
2) that the sb is capable of a resteal here with junkish junk because he knows that the button could be raising with a wide range of hands (many players from the sb here will push with a far wider range than certain buttons will miniraise with)

then calling becomes massively correct for the bb. in fact, if he's even mildly capable of saying that the button's miniraise was weak, in other words, if he has any reason at all to think that the button is going to fold, then he's got a really clear call getting risk: 600 reward: 3600 on the hand.

i think that many players do fold from the bb too much in spots like this, and that it's a fairly major leak. if both bigger stacks were already in, it's a clear fold with most hands, but with a big stack to act behind who can fold if he wants to, folding in the middle of the action with great odds is a huge leak.

citanul

[freemoney]

no i totally agree, i honestly fold here i initially read this wrong and thought you were the button and were open-pushing, i really like a fold here.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
oh come on yugo, my post contained 2 things:

1) what i believe to be proper play and way of making the decision
2) an admission that i routinely don't play properly.

i'm not really back yet though. while i might post some today, and play some today, i won't be back for real until just around the main event starting.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not every day I get to bust your balls...had to do it.

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Yugoslav
Who thinks you should be happy you aren't labeled 'gay' and/or 'communist' every other day (not that there is anything wrong with being either one... /images/graemlins/smile.gif )

[Newt_Buggs]

[ QUOTE ]
i think that many players do fold from the bb too much in spots like this, and that it's a fairly major leak. if both bigger stacks were already in, it's a clear fold with most hands, but with a big stack to act behind who can fold if he wants to, folding in the middle of the action with great odds is a huge leak.

[/ QUOTE ]
good to have you back Citanul. What hand range are you calling with here from the BB? Would you guys call with Q2o, 98o, 43s?

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
What hand range are you calling with here from the BB? Would you guys call with Q2o, 98o, 43s?

[/ QUOTE ]

if i'm decently sure that the button is folding, i'm calling with any two from the bb in this spot, i think. i'm extra happy doing so when i'm pretty sure that the sb is good enough to be making this move with a wide range of hands.

yugo: the only reason no one's been bashing me for being something or the other lately is that i haven't been around. during my absence, i even considered making a new screen name or two. maybe one for [censored] one for nice, or something. then i realized that i and most people who are reasonable don't care if i'm an [censored] as long as i also give worthwhile advice too. so that's my new forum goal: i swear to have any attitude i feel like, but provide insight/helpfulness as well.

citanul

[The Yugoslavian]

Guess which STTer emailed this to me with no context provided!! Would you have dinner at his house if invited? /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/shocked.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

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Dear Mr. Editor: Why don't you take this pathetic little experiment, roll it up in a tiny little ball and cram it so far up your ass that you'll have to be dead 6 months before Dr. Nagouchi can find it!
I come to find out that you're paying THE LOVE DOCTOR 25 cents a word for that plagarized drivel while I get 10 cents. The "Love Doctor" got his degree from a dipolma mill 90 miles outside of Havana by paying his dear departed Dean under the table. (I suppose there's a grim irony in the fact that the payments were made in $20 bills that had been recently printed by the "Doctor" and his closet-[censored] pal known only as "Creepy"). That this post-pubescent delinquent gets to be called Doctor is testimony to all that is wrong with the medical establishment in this Country. If the advise given out by the "DOCTOR" in your scurulous rag of a publication is any indication of his experience, skill or education, then his nurses aren't the only ones getting [censored].

I'M SO COMPLETELY WACKED OFF BY YOUR TACTICS THAT I INTEND TO SAVE MY HOMERIAN TALENTS FOR USE BY THE LEGITIMATE PRESS WHERE THE CLEVER UNDERCURRENTS OF MY WRITING WILL BE APPRECIATED AND WHERE THERE'S A CHANCE THAT THE EDITOR WILL ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND THE NUANCE OF THE WRITTEN WORD!...ps: I hope that BETTY510 turns out to be a bull dyke that makes Alex look like [censored] Mary Poppins!


[/ QUOTE ]

Much better (yet still pathetic) Carpal post....I hope treeofwisdom can hook up an analysis of this...*that* post will be even better.

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Yugoslav
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Here is what I *had* written for this post:
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yugo: the only reason no one's been bashing me for being something or the other lately is that i haven't been around.

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I left and got bashed even more! /images/graemlins/mad.gif

But yes, it will be good to have your insight back...when you provide it...it's quite helpful.

Yugoslav
Oops....I'm Carpal now....what a weak Carpal post...

[Newt_Buggs]

I consider the [censored] bonus points. That way, when I read your posts I get to read something informative and amsuing.