Stud HIGH - Flush draw against two weak opponents

[aamitch10]

OK... I don't have much info on the players because I have only been in the game for a few minutes. I do know that seat 4 is very, very weak, and will bet complete garbage. He also would have come in for a raise with split eights I would guess 87% of the time. Seat 6 is way too loose, passive, and could have any combination of garbage. I have some Ideas on how I should have played this hand, but want to hear what the experts have to say, so I won't tell you where I thought I misplayed it.

Card Stud High ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (hand converter (http://www.geocities.com/greenage22/7StudConverter.hta.txt))

Seat 1: $76.75
Seat 2: $30
Seat 4: $46.25
Seat 5: $102.75
Seat 6: $110
Hero: $96.75
Seat 8: $161.75

3rd Street - (0.88 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/club.gif___calls
Seat 2: xx xx 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif___calls
Seat 5: xx xx J/images/graemlins/club.gif___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/club.gif___brings-in
Hero: 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif___folds

4th Street - (3.38 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif___calls
Seat 5: xx xx J/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif___bets
Hero: 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif___calls

5th Street - (3.69 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif___checks
Seat 4: xx xx 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif___checks
Seat 6: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks
Hero: 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___checks

6th Street - (3.69 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif___bets
Seat 6: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif___calls
Hero: 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif___calls

River - (7.69 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif xx___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif xx___bets
Seat 6: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif xx___calls
Hero: 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___calls

Total pot: (10.69 BB)

[MrBlueNose]

6th is an easy fold. Small pot, behind with the possibility of drawing completely dead, especially to seat 6 who's betting pattern is at least representing a flush. 4th I raise or call, and sometimes I bet on 5th depending on players & table.

Also if you were only in the game a few minutes, how could you be 87% sure he'd come in with a raise with split 8s? You've seen what? 9 or 10 hands? Methinks you're just making excuses up for the calldown /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[beta1607]

Complete 3rd here, you hand is completely live and there are no big cards to act behind you. I also think there is some value in a bet on 5th.

[aamitch10]

You raise an interesting point about how could I be 87% sure... Although I don't know the specific player, I do know that from the way he was playing, and the hands he showed down, he fits a general mold. I have played alot of stud and know his type. This is where the 87% comes in.

You brought up the point of raising on 4th. This is where I think I misplayed the hand. At the time I contemplated raising seat 6 to try to get it heads up with him. I put him on no better than a pair of tens. Remember, I said he was way to loose, passive, so he would tend not to bet a flush draw. He would check call. I was trying to decide if I wanted to play a heads up pot or a four to five way pot with my near completely live flush draw. I decided that since atleast two players were weak, I would allow them to continue on.

Had I infact raised fourth and gotten it heads up, I probably would have bought the pot on fifth when I pair my door and bet again. But I couldn't have known I was going to pair.

The biggest question to me is "Do I want to play heads up on fourth with a live four flush and an overcard against atleast a pair of tens being held by a very weak player?"

[aamitch10]

I almost never complete third here as I was right behind the bring in. I wanted it to be a family affair. Is this incorrect?

I realize there are no overs to my king, but my kickers are 3 and 6. Not exactly what I want to be heads up with against any pair. Is this incorrect?

[beta1607]

This is a good spot to complete and disguise your hand. If everyone folds thats fine, if they all call thats perfect and if a few call thats obviously not the most desired outcome but its not a problem either.

Its not how live your 6 and 3 are, its how live your /images/graemlins/heart.gif are especially in comparison to all the dead clubs and spades behind you. You have a lot of pot equity and want as many people sticking around as possible. By raising you may be making a small theoretical mistake but it will likely tie in other players when you hit your hand causing them to make a huge mistake.


If you limp here with this board everytime you are giving up a lot of value.

[aamitch10]

Thanks for the advice Beta. I never really considered raising third. I have just always thought that I am giving up too much by forcing ANYONE to fold when I am holding a live three flush.

At what point do you like limping with this holding? Two or three paint cards behind you who may raise for you?

[beta1607]

[ QUOTE ]
At what point do you like limping with this holding? Two or three paint cards behind you who may raise for you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I will limp with a couple big cards behind or an opponent who is very agg on 3rd and will isolate raise me. When in doubt I will raise it - however remember to mix up your play and limp or limp-raise a certain % of the time regardless of what is behind, it will be important as you move up in limits to disguise your holdings more and insure that you get paid off on big hands.