BRL's interesting hand of the day

[bigredlemon]

3rd:
Q limps in in front
I have (AK)A and flat call.
two 8s limp in behind.

4th
I hit a scarey suited baby for (AK)A2
the Q hits xxQQ and bets. I flat call. two 8s behind me both catch a 5 and call.
The QQ has limp is super loose, so i'm definetly not giving him credit for trips here

5th.
xxQQ hits a blank and bets out.
I hit xxA27 for 3 suited low cards.
The 8s behind me hit a 6 and 7.

Perfect opportunity to get HU with the high I thought, so raise.
Both the 8s calls two cold, and the QQ 3bets. I think awhile and call hoping to hit another A. they call.

6th:
QQ makes open queens up. I catch a J and fold.

7th:
QQ bets. Both 8s fold!!!??


I'm not sure how I lost 100bbs playing against these guys.

[mscags]

This is interesting. I like your strategy about trying to get it heads up. I think I might have tried to do it on fourth, but you probably have a better chance of getting it HU if you wait until fifth like you did. Them cold calling two really screws your plan up though. Obviously good fold on sixth.

[Nick_Foxx]

BRL, I think I would play this hand quite differently. I'd definitely come in with a raise on 3rd street to try to knock out the (rough) low draws that might come in for a single bet behind me. You have the (xx)Q completely dominated obviously and I'd rather play a heads-up pot against an inferior high hand than a multi-way pot against the same high hand and two low draws. You are a huge favorite in the former, while in the latter, there is a not-insignificant chance that you will get nothing back from the pot.

Mike

[hurlyburly]

At what limits does this logic start taking effect? Don't get me wrong, I understand your line completely.

I don't play above $3/6, and at those low limits on Party I've only found lows to be profitable. At my tables, I routinely fold high pairs (even aces without a suited low), because for 2.5k hands they have been a net loss against themselves.

The idea that playing big pairs in S/8 is a leak sounds ridiculous, and my sample is small, so it might not mean much.

With that in mind, please don't flame me for saying I'd raise 3rd, and fold 4th if everyone calls and the QQ bets out. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[bigredlemon]

[ QUOTE ]
At what limits does this logic start taking effect? Don't get me wrong, I understand your line completely.

I don't play above $3/6, and at those low limits on Party I've only found lows to be profitable. At my tables, I routinely fold high pairs (even aces without a suited low), because for 2.5k hands they have been a net loss against themselves.

The idea that playing big pairs in S/8 is a leak sounds ridiculous, and my sample is small, so it might not mean much.

With that in mind, please don't flame me for saying I'd raise 3rd, and fold 4th if everyone calls and the QQ bets out. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[/ QUOTE ]I think this play should work against players who does any kind of thinking. I think even most losing players will fold a draw to 8 low against someone representing a made 7 low. I would think even if they have an open straight draw, they'd have to fold it to my obvious flush draw. I've seen very few players outside of party .5/1 who would keep going.

As for big pairs, I think they're at least as profitable as a hand like 245o in the typical tight party 2/4 and up because players will often fold 4th if they brick unless they have a monster. The pots are usually heads up by 4th so they aren't getting the pot odds to chase their low straight.

I didn't raise 3rd because it was a loose table and I wanted to be able to get away from the hand cheaply. On fifth I saw a chance to make a play and that failed utterly. You just don't expect anyway to call 2BB to chase runner-runner at half of a 4BB pot.


And I have to agree with you that big pairs are almost compeltely unplayable in a loose game, which is why I only limped in the first place. If I wasn't set up so perfectly to make this play, I would have folded 4th or 5th at this table.

As for raising 3rd and folding 4th if the Q bets, i think you going to get run over at a LAG table doing that. I've seen many players at that table call a completion with hands like (9J)Q and bet up when they pair their door into an obvious overpair, and then 3bet a raise with just their open queens.

[hurlyburly]

Ok, thanks. I try to pick the loosest tables, so I don't run into thinking players often. Hence I wasn't terribly surprised that 2 worse lows were ready to cold call 2 bets twice on 5th.

I didn't see a limit posted, and was curious if this was a $5/10 or $10/20 table, because I could play there if players are that bad.

[ QUOTE ]
As for raising 3rd and folding 4th if the Q bets, i think you going to get run over at a LAG table doing that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're right about this, but I'm just strong enough yet.

[bholdr]

If you're not giving him credit for trips, you've got top be thinking that you'll likely need aces up or better to win the high end. I really like your isolation raise- I makte that play all the time.

The fold is also correct, you're way behind what is likely two pair, a couple of low draws, and potential straight draws form the 8s. Your equity in this spot on sixth is about 15%... the pot isn't huge, etc.

this is why you've gotta raise those aces on third! especially with 8s behind you... gotta knock them out.