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View Full Version : Pushing when not in dire need of chips


DMACM
06-30-2005, 01:09 AM
I realize this might be an obvious questoin to some but I think lately I have been pushing from the SB a little too much. In this hand I really did not need chips badly but I figured KTs is a pretty good hand.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t985)
UTG (t1240)
MP1 (t1145)
MP2 (t1660)
CO (t280)
Button (t1170)
Hero (t1520)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
FOLDED TO ME I PUSHED

pergesu
06-30-2005, 01:11 AM
I like it. I push every time.

lastchance
06-30-2005, 01:12 AM
Pushing when your FE is high and you have a good hand = really embarassingly standard.

If you are posting this push, there is something seriously wrong with your game.

DMACM
06-30-2005, 01:14 AM
Im sure theres lots wrong with my game but im not embarassed about it.

valejo
06-30-2005, 01:18 AM
Would anybody raise to 3xBB here instead of pushing? That is typically my move and it usually works. I can get out of the hand if it becomes clear he is holding a monster.

I guess my more general question/confession is that I'm not entirely sure when it is best to push versus making a large bet. Typically I make a large raise when it will cost me one third or less of my stack (as in this example) when attempting to steal. Do I lose more in fold equity than I gain in insurance?

Matt R.
06-30-2005, 01:19 AM
Looks fine. Out of curiousity (and trying to fix a possible hole in my game), who still pushes if BB's stack is a little bigger, and how big does it need to be to make it a fold?

Isura
06-30-2005, 01:24 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Looks fine. Out of curiousity (and trying to fix a possible hole in my game), who still pushes if BB's stack is a little bigger, and how big does it need to be to make it a fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

If BB has the same stack, you still should push with KT here if we think villain folds a lot of hands (say 75% or more). It's not near the bubble yet, and this is a pretty +CEV push. There is a nice article in 2+2 magazine this month about pushing in this spot (SB vs the BB), and it talks about maximal stack sizes when pushing no longer is profitable.

Isura
06-30-2005, 01:26 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Would anybody raise to 3xBB here instead of pushing? That is typically my move and it usually works. I can get out of the hand if it becomes clear he is holding a monster.

I guess my more general question/confession is that I'm not entirely sure when it is best to push versus making a large bet. Typically I make a large raise when it will cost me one third or less of my stack (as in this example) when attempting to steal. Do I lose more in fold equity than I gain in insurance?

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising 3x is not good against a decent player with only a 10bb stack. I good player will come over the top with a lot here if he picks up on it, and a bad player will probably push KJ etc anyways.

Matt R.
06-30-2005, 01:27 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Would anybody raise to 3xBB here instead of pushing? That is typically my move and it usually works. I can get out of the hand if it becomes clear he is holding a monster.

I guess my more general question/confession is that I'm not entirely sure when it is best to push versus making a large bet. Typically I make a large raise when it will cost me one third or less of my stack (as in this example) when attempting to steal. Do I lose more in fold equity than I gain in insurance?

[/ QUOTE ]

The costing you 1/3 of your stack part does not apply here since BB has only 985 chips left. A 3x BB raise will effectively put him all in since it's almost 1/2 his stack, so pushing gives you the same result. The only way I could see that it would make a difference is if the BB is really horrible and he doesn't realize that once he commits half his stack he can't fold -- so he calls the raise just to see a flop, but would fold to a push. There's actually a lot of these players at the lower buy-ins. But really, pushing does the same thing in this instance since your only opponent left in the hand has 6-7x BB's.

Addition -- Ugh, I always forget that BB has already posted with the hand converter output. So, he has 150 more chips than what I thought initially, but what I said still applies.

valejo
06-30-2005, 01:30 AM
Thanks for the detailed reply. I appreciate it.

Matt R.
06-30-2005, 01:33 AM
Let's say villain is loose. There are a lot of hands that KTs is behind here, even though it's fairly unlikely BB is holding one. However, you have a very healthy stack here, and if you would give BB a very loose calling range and a large stack, isn't pushing KTs here pretty risky? I'm not so sure 225 chips in the pot would be worth it to say pushing is correct here in ALL scenarios if we increase BB's stack enough. I'm not sure, but just a possible argument. And I'm actually going to go read that article now. By the way, please try to convince me that my above argument is wrong, and that it's always correct to push KTs here. I typically WOULD push here regardless of BB's stack -- but I've had the feeling lately that I'm being overaggressive with pre-bubble play.