$109s - Best Line Here With Nut Flush Draw

[Unarmed]

I think AQ gets raised here a good percentage of the time by MP1 8-handed. BB is a regular, not awful, not great. Will make semi-tough laydowns. No read on MP1.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t1590)
Hero (t925)
BB (t980)
UTG (t965)
UTG+1 (t1150)
MP1 (t2075)
MP2 (t845)
CO (t1470)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls t50, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t150) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

I'll post the flop action once I get a few replies.

[hansarnic]

Check-raise all-in.

[Freudian]

I think you can check-raise this. MP1 is bound to take a stab at it if checked to him.

[adanthar]

Pot's just a little too small to CR all in so you may as well lead out. I've done both, though.

[Freudian]

A massive overbet does scream out that you are on a draw (to good players anyway).

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
Pot's just a little too small to CR all in

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming a bet of 100 or so, how about a CR to 300 and then push any turn?

[The Yugoslavian]

I don't mind betting out here but I prefer checking on the flop. You have the opportunity to check/raise in this line plus you get the added bonus of seeing your opponent(s)'s bet size which will help tip his hand a bit. If I lead out it will be for 75-100 generally.

Yugoslav

[11t]

I'd bet out 100 and see what happens.

[microbet]

I like leading out for 100.

You have a good chance of taking the pot right there and if your flush hits you will be more likely to get paid off on it than if you check.

Like Adanthar pointed out, the pot is too small to plan for a c/r allin.

[Unarmed]

Alright so we have a couple opinions, with only Yugo and Micro giving any sort of reasoning. THANKS GUYS! /images/graemlins/grin.gif Here are three different scenarios, one of which actually happened.

1) Hero leads for 90, BB calls, MP1 raises to 300.
2) Hero leads for 90, BB folds, MP1 calls, turn bricks.
3) Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 bets 150.

Your action.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pot's just a little too small to CR all in

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming a bet of 100 or so, how about a CR to 300 and then push any turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this check/raise size is too small. I'd checkraise to at least 400 if a villian bet out 100 and I was going to raise. I would then push the turn or call his flop allin over my 400 raise. The thing is, after a t100 bet, the t250 would be nice to win....and I think t300 just encourages your opponent to call and making a turn push trickier if a non-favorable card falls.

Yugoslav

[adanthar]

1)Go back, check why MP1 has 2K chips, and then push or fold depending on donk-ness

2)Either 150-ize or CR push any turn (I like 150)

3)MinCR, push any turn (because t150 looks fishy, a minraise looks fishier, you'll just have enough to make a pot sized push, and I'd also do the same with a set)

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
Alright so we have a couple opinions, with only Yugo and Micro giving any sort of reasoning. THANKS GUYS! /images/graemlins/grin.gif Here are three different scenarios, one of which actually happened.

1) Hero leads for 90, BB calls, MP1 raises to 300.
2) Hero leads for 90, BB folds, MP1 calls.
3) Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 bets 150.

Your action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this gonna be like one of those old school adventure books? Am I gonna get to p. 58 and be devoured by lurking crocodiles? /images/graemlins/mad.gif I hate it when that happens!!

1) You have absolutely no read on MP1? I'd love to know how he got those chips....hmmm. I likely fold here if I don't think he's at least a bit of a monkey.

2) I like putting in a nice bet of about 1/2 the pot. If I hit my nut I likely check.

3) Allin b/c I'm not sure I can bet anything less and still have something good to fire on the turn...unless I minbet but I'm worried that invites a not great hand (but one ahead of me) to just push. I am also tempted to fold here.

Yugoslav

[microbet]

I don't know. I'm at kind of an inflection point in the way I play this kind of a hand on the turn.

1. Fold, unless my note says "idiot"

2. Check. I don't think he's folding to any bet I want to make.

3. I guess I want to play this hard. C/R allin. I don't know about the minCR because I neither want a reraise, nor do I want him to feel pot-stuck on a blank turn.

[Unarmed]

1) Agreed. Either push or fold depending on read.

2) So either C/R all-in or bet half pot to price the draw ourselves and increase the chances of getting paid if we hit the flush. I like leading because if we're just flat called I think there's a good chance of moving QJ off the river with a push. (yes I'm aggro)

3) I would push here, but mostly because I HATE being OOP with a draw in a big pot that I created. Adanthar, what do I gain from min-raising and pot pushing the turn that I don't already achieve by C/Ring all-in on the flop? Do you think you generate better FE with that line? BTW I will C/R all-in on the flop here with a set on occasion.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

Adanthar, what do I gain from min-raising and pot pushing the turn that I don't already achieve by C/Ring all-in on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

(c/r amount - initial bet) chips when they call and fold to the turn push, which they frequently will.

[ckff93]

With your chip stack dwindling, I think you need to check here unless you are willing to risk all your chips on a flush draw. You're behind anyone with a queen right now and even farther behind AQ. If you had showed strength before the flop then I would consider betting out on this relatively harmless flop. As it stands, I would say, check, then if someone bets then do the math and call if you are getting the right odds to draw.

If you do decide to bet out, then bet what you know is giving you good odds to draw, that way if they call, great, if they raise, you can get away from it.

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Adanthar, what do I gain from min-raising and pot pushing the turn that I don't already achieve by C/Ring all-in on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

(c/r amount - initial bet) chips when they call and fold to the turn push, which they frequently will.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, thank you Gump, I took grade 4 math. /images/graemlins/grin.gif
I'm just surprised that a stop and go here would generate more FE on the two flush board. If I call flop/push turn won't MP1 sit there and wonder why I didn't protect my hand on the flop? I mean, MP1 could easily have Ax/images/graemlins/spade.gif so if I'm sitting on two pair I should be raising here, especially with BB left to act.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm just surprised that a stop and go here would generate more FE on the two flush board.

[/ QUOTE ]

It won't, necessarily, but this is why the c/r getting you more chips is important. If the FE is roughly the same, which I think it generally will be (weakly c/r'ing the flop and pushing a blank turn is generally going to look pretty serious), then the extra chips you gain is plenty to recommend this play.

[Unarmed]

Ok that makes sense. I like.
Anyway, he had AA and raised my 90 lead to 300. I pushed (I was basically getting pot odds against AQ) and lost.
The real lesson to be learned here is the fact that he doubled up by limping AA in MP earlier in the game.

ALWAYS check to see how someone acquired their chips before making a tough decision.

[kyro]

I would check. If there's a reasonable-sized bet I push and take it down. If he bets unusually small, I call and see the turn.