Moniter setup and Wrist/arm help for multitabler

[sublime]

I play anywhere from 4-7 tables on two 2001's. my wrist hurts and my elbow hurts when i play for any significant amount of time. my monitor setup is a slight v shape probably about 18 inches from the fronnt edge of my desk.

okay so now you have all the variables so help me. i suppose my main questions are:

is there something I can get from my elbow so when its rested on desk it doesn't hurt? or is it not good to elevate it?

wrist guard? which one? the best please.

i use a logitech mouse and one of those pads with the jelly thing (which i find awkward to rest my hand on BTW and usually don't use)

im [censored]

[Zelcious]

Maybe you should buy a powerball and work up your strength. I heard its good for mouse arm. Dunno if its true though.

[bkholdem]

I only multi table 4 on my laptop but I have a sweet 'workstation'. I have the laptop on the end table and play while laying down on my side on the couch. The TV is also in the background. Your in your own home. Why work sitting down when you can work lying down? lol.

[NoTalent]

Just like your title, it sounds like Carpal Tunnel. This is serious, and I expect many online players to develop it. Sitting at your desk mousing for 8 hours a day is not healthy.

I would recommend using "mouseless poker" suggestions set up for your multi-tabling that you do. keep your wrist straight and try to stretch and take breaks if possible.

I don't play that much, and when I do I usually 4 table. I have a numpad only setup with the mouseless poker and I can play without pain for 6 hours.

edit:
Here was the original thread
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=inet&Number=2045207

[sublime]

yeah, i tried the mouseless poker and just havemt developed the 'feel' for it. however, i dont want to be a gimp either. maybe i can tinker with the mouseless setting enough to fit my comfort zone.

[TStoneMBD]

do my setup, you wont regret it.

buy a recliner and a bench where the height is about the size of the recliner's armrest.

put the bench to the side of the recliner and put the monitors on the bench.

position the mouse on the armrest. if you have a crappy ball mouse you have to get a lazer for this to work.

now when you use your mouse your elbow will be touching the armrest and you wont get carpal tunnel or any pain. its also much more comfortable sitting on a recliner all day instead of a computer chair.

if you dont like having to look to your right/left in order to see the monitors, you can purchase one of those $20 carts that go over your recliner, so that you can look directly ahead at them, and then just move the cart out of the way when you want to get up.

[sublime]

do you use the all right hand one? or two hands one?

[Rudbaeck]

Are the screens at the proper height? If you look straight ahead your eyes should be about 75% up the vertical height of the monitor. (Almost everyone has their monitor too low, causing them to hunch over.)

Get a vertical mouse, I like the ones from Evoluent. Least retraining for a 'new' pointer device. You hold it in a hand-shake grip instead of in the traditional supinated position. Which atleast stop your forearm bones from grating together against your wrist.

Is your chair good? And is the proper height compared to your desk? If the soles of your feet are flat against the floor your knees should bend at 90degrees, and when your upper arm is vertical your elbow should bend at 90degrees when gripping the mouse.

Tried out other chairs? Some people love the kneeling chairs, as well as the bizarre inflatable ball chairs. The Aeron is off course a good baseline.

Get a left handed mouse, preferably a vertical one as well. Get a couple of different trackballs. I'm particularly fond of the ones you can attach to one hand, and run with the other. Lets you vary position alot.

With a host of different pointing devices, and a strict regimen of upper body and back workout you can probably avoid RSI as a full time online pro. Probably. Atleast long enough for a revolution of input devices that don't make people into cripples.

[Adde]

Get yourself a better setup. I've seen others post pictures of theirs, but they sukk compared with mine, IMO. I've had similar problems (wrist/arm/neck) when I had the usual office table setup, but when I switched to the current one, no more problems, and so much more comfortable sitting environment.

The image is a year old, so picture it with two 2001fp:s, and an optical mouse (with a mousepad optimized for opticals; smooth and easy to rest the hand on). All stuff from IKEA, approximately $300 total for everything (including armchair/footstool). The mouse table is the real killer; all parts of your arm is rested at all times, and the optical mouse can be manuevered with very small movements, hardly moving the wrist at all. (BTW, the mouse table was not included, but I built it from the wood that should have been a shelf on the table.)

Adde

http://img116.echo.cx/img116/9564/tablechair43rd.jpg

[sublime]

Are the screens at the proper height? If you look straight ahead your eyes should be about 75% up the vertical height of the monitor. (Almost everyone has their monitor too low, causing them to hunch over.)

i am somewhat confused by this. if i look straight ahead i am looking at the top 30% of desktop space, are you saying i should be looking at like 50% of it?

i do a lot of hunching over, yes.

[Rudbaeck]

Adde must be an IKEA-fanboi. Both the fan and the lamp you see a piece of in the background are from IKEA. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Adde]

Adde must be an IKEA-fanboi. Both the fan and the lamp you see a piece of in the background are from IKEA. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Hehe. Actually, the fan is not IKEA. The lamp is, but I have thrown that ugly thing out since then, and replaced it with a better one. (And, uhum, that one's from IKEA too. I'm such a junkie.)

Adde

[sublime]

wow, my monitor height sucks!

one of those mouse 'tables' would be perfect. looks like its time to do a little remodeling.

[Rudbaeck]

[ QUOTE ]
i am somewhat confused by this. if i look straight ahead i am looking at the top 30% of desktop space, are you saying i should be looking at like 50% of it?

i do a lot of hunching over, yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like you are in the right spot. But now I realize this recommendation is for standard office work, and you utilize far more screen area constantly when multitabling than when working on a text document or spreadsheet. Try elevating the monitors a bit more. You should be forced to sit with a straight back when looking comfortably at your screens.

I've got a 21" monitor here, I'm 6'4" tall and the bottom of my actual windows desktop (ie, the bottom of the taskbar) is elevated almost exactly 16" above my desk. My eye level is 24.4" above the desk, so that puts it 68% up the vertical of the monitor.

This is sitting with 90 degree bends in knees, hips and elbow, with the lower arm resting on the desk. Shoulder is relaxed.

I might try raising my monitor another inch.

[morgant]

just adjusted my monitors thanks rudbaeck,

[Rudbaeck]

[ QUOTE ]
wow, my monitor height sucks!

one of those mouse 'tables' would be perfect. looks like its time to do a little remodeling.

[/ QUOTE ]

You still want to get one of these babies (http://www.evoluent.com/). You really do. Your wrists will want to have my babies when you do.

[sublime]

you sure? that thing looks like some sort of workout device! i will give it a whirl i suppose. i need comfort. if i get that thing i suppose i don't need a wrist protector thing? I'm gonna rig up my set up later tonight and see how it goes.

btw, i typed this message buck naked. time to jump in the shower!

[sublime]

wow! $75? is that normal or can i find them cheaper?

morgant can i have a loan?

[Adde]

You still want to get one of these babies (http://www.evoluent.com/). You really do. Your wrists will want to have my babies when you do.

Looking great. Do you know if any dealers in Uppsala sell them (so I can try it out before buying them cheaper from US)? Searched Alina and Tricom websites with no success.

Any cons (besides not being wireless)?

Adde

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
Are the screens at the proper height? If you look straight ahead your eyes should be about 75% up the vertical height of the monitor. (Almost everyone has their monitor too low, causing them to hunch over.)

Get a vertical mouse, I like the ones from Evoluent. Least retraining for a 'new' pointer device. You hold it in a hand-shake grip instead of in the traditional supinated position. Which atleast stop your forearm bones from grating together against your wrist.

Is your chair good? And is the proper height compared to your desk? If the soles of your feet are flat against the floor your knees should bend at 90degrees, and when your upper arm is vertical your elbow should bend at 90degrees when gripping the mouse.

Tried out other chairs? Some people love the kneeling chairs, as well as the bizarre inflatable ball chairs. The Aeron is off course a good baseline.

Get a left handed mouse, preferably a vertical one as well. Get a couple of different trackballs. I'm particularly fond of the ones you can attach to one hand, and run with the other. Lets you vary position alot.

With a host of different pointing devices, and a strict regimen of upper body and back workout you can probably avoid RSI as a full time online pro. Probably. Atleast long enough for a revolution of input devices that don't make people into cripples.

[/ QUOTE ]

Either that or just hire a midget to click the mouse for you. "Raise to 22 on table 1" "Fold table 2".....

[lacky]

I had real bad problems as you are discribing. Dont ignore it, the worse it get's before you fix the problem the longer it will take to go away (my pain stuck around for a good 4 to 6 weeks after the changes)

Ok, first i switched to this trackball

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=2150,CONTENTID=5006

It works great, and completely fixed my wrist/elbow pain because i move nothing but my fingers now. I sit in a lazyboy with a pellow in my lap, with the trackball on the pellow. I only move my fingertips and click with my thumb.

However, no free lunch in life, after 2 years of this setup I am having some pain in the joint of the 3rd finger of my right hand from the trackball. I will prob end up with another mouse type device i can switch off with every week or 2.

Hope that helps,

Steve

[Eratosthenes]

trackball

[sublime]

i ordered one of those fancy mouse gadgets rudbeack was talking about and added a cool foot stool for my puppies to rest on. also went out and bought an addition to my desk (like a mutlipurpose drawer/cabinet/hide a girls mutilated fingers type thing). so my set up looks a litle bit like addes now. thanks again guys, and i will give a report when my new mouse comes.

[Prodigy]

[ QUOTE ]
Get yourself a better setup. I've seen others post pictures of theirs, but they sukk compared with mine, IMO. I've had similar problems (wrist/arm/neck) when I had the usual office table setup, but when I switched to the current one, no more problems, and so much more comfortable sitting environment.

The image is a year old, so picture it with two 2001fp:s, and an optical mouse (with a mousepad optimized for opticals; smooth and easy to rest the hand on). All stuff from IKEA, approximately $300 total for everything (including armchair/footstool). The mouse table is the real killer; all parts of your arm is rested at all times, and the optical mouse can be manuevered with very small movements, hardly moving the wrist at all. (BTW, the mouse table was not included, but I built it from the wood that should have been a shelf on the table.)

Adde

http://img116.echo.cx/img116/9564/tablechair43rd.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

haha, i thought I was the only one that used this IKEA chair as a computer chair. I have the black one. Anyways, do you think this chair is alittle too low for a computer chair? I was thinking of getting a "REAL" computer chair but i guess this is okay if you are you recommending it to others.
I agree though, that mouse table is the key. I gotta make me one of them jammies.

[Rudbaeck]

[ QUOTE ]
You still want to get one of these babies (http://www.evoluent.com/). You really do. Your wrists will want to have my babies when you do.

Looking great. Do you know if any dealers in Uppsala sell them (so I can try it out before buying them cheaper from US)? Searched Alina and Tricom websites with no success.

Any cons (besides not being wireless)?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was a bit apprehensive due to it not being wireless, but you honestly don't notice the wire. You get a much stronger and healthier grip on it.

And yes, www.ergoff.se (http://www.ergoff.se) sells them right here in town Adde. (Not sure if they actually have a store, I did a mail order.)

[Klepton]

please reply with where you got every single piece of this set (even though most of it look like it's from IKEA)

i will be setting up a new desk area and this looks perfect

[Adde]

And yes, www.ergoff.se (http://www.ergoff.se) sells them right here in town Adde. (Not sure if they actually have a store, I did a mail order.)

Super! I just called them, and they have a store near Elgiganten. I'm off to test this little beauty right now. Did you mail order from US or Sweden?

Adde

[Adde]

Anyways, do you think this chair is alittle too low for a computer chair? I was thinking of getting a "REAL" computer chair but i guess this is okay if you are you recommending it to others.

I'm no ergonomics expert by all means, but I've had no problems with the chair being too low (and I spend some considerable time in it). I have my 2001fp:s at the lowest position though, which makes my eyes look (about) at the middle of the screen when sitting upright. When leaning down, I look upwards to the screen. Works for me.

Adde

[Adde]

http://img116.echo.cx/img116/9564/tablechair43rd.jpg

please reply with where you got every single piece of this set (even though most of it look like it's from IKEA). i will be setting up a new desk area and this looks perfect

In short of knowing, I assume you're from the US, so here's some links to your local IKEA.

Computer work station MIKAEL, $89.00 (http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10101&storeId=12&langId=-1&productId=25907)

http://www.ikea.com/PIAimages/21094_PE106114_S4.jpg

(Make your mouse table with material from the shelf parts.)

Swivel chair MALUNG, $169.00 (Beige/Red/Black) (http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10101&storeId=12&productI d=11051&langId=-1&parentCats=10114*10292)

http://www.ikea.com/PIAimages/19126_PE102629_S3.jpg
Footstool MALUNG, $30.00 (http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10101&storeId=12&productI d=11052&langId=-1&parentCats=10114*10292)

http://www.ikea.com/PIAimages/40089_PE133432_S3.jpg

Total price: $288.00

I would also reccommend this lamp (instead of the one in my picture: LINK (http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10101&storeId=12&productI d=47041&langId=-1&parentCats=10111*10270)) . It don't take up much space on the mouse table, yet good enough for a work lamp. If you choose a smaller fan, you'll get room for both the lamp and fan on the mouse table.

Work lamp MIL, $12.99 (http://www.ikea.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10101&storeId=12&productI d=18217&langId=-1&parentCats=10111*10280) http://www.ikea.com/PIAimages/25543_PE110332_S3.jpg

Now, back to kissing some other ass than IKEA:s... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Adde

[Rudbaeck]

[ QUOTE ]
And yes, www.ergoff.se (http://www.ergoff.se) sells them right here in town Adde. (Not sure if they actually have a store, I did a mail order.)

Super! I just called them, and they have a store near Elgiganten. I'm off to test this little beauty right now. Did you mail order from US or Sweden?

[/ QUOTE ]

I ordered the from Ergoff. Yes, it's more expensive, but I got them in two days. With my usual luck it takes three weeks for anything to arrive from the US, and by the time I decided to get one my shoulder was killing me.