Phil Ivey + other young poker legends...

[Dentist]

I've only read a little about this guy, but he sounds like a total poker STUD (pun intended)

Anyway, I was reading that he's only 25 and is kicking big-time ass in tournaments and what not.

My question - how does someone that young (he's my age) acquire that kind of knowledge and skill?

Last time I checked the legal gambling age was 21.

What's the anatomy of a young, awesome poker player??
Does he have amazing intelligence? Did he study the books, literature, and play excessively at a young age?

What makes him so good?
Same for Hellmuth - he was very talented at a young age - so experience can't count for everything.

Do these guys have some sort of god-given skill?

What are their backgrounds??

I'm actually looking forward to Phil Hellmuth's book for this reason - I want to find out what makes him tick..

But I'm more intruiged by Ivey - I wanna know how smart that cat is... why he's so good

[D.J.]

I don't think a player's age matters too much. There are plenty of players 25 and under who are just as good as the older guys who are looked at as the elite. I think the reason you don't see too many young guys who are world class players is simply b/c most people 25 and under just don't have that kind of money, or at least don't have the money to build a decent bankroll. Phil Hellmuth said he had 20K in the bank when he was 20, not too many 20 yr olds can say that, and not only that even if they had it, why would a 20 or 21 yr old want to go hang out w/ guys that are 35 and up every night in card rooms. I'm 21 and besides me there aren't very many people my age or even close playing cards and playing 20-40 or 30-60 for that matter. Basically, I think it all comes down to most young people just don't have the bankrolls like the older guys, and they choose to not hang out in card rooms in their youthful years.

-D.J.

[Zeno]

"I'm actually looking forward to Phil Hellmuth's book for this reason.."

Dentist,

It is my opinion that you would learn substantially more about poker by reading Cicero - in addition to other useful information.


-Zeno

[whiskeytown]

going off something David S. said in his book....and just hazarding a guess....

It used to be the biggest skill you could have in a game is to put a player on a hand. If you could do that, you were virtually guaranteed positive EV over time.

David theorizies that more aggressive play on the part of an amateur (pushing all-in) can negate a lot of this advantage. Even if a player does put you on AK vs. his QQ, is he REALLY going to want to risk his entire stack on the 50/50 draw...usually, no. (And David tells us not to do that if we think we're the better player) -

are these more aggressive players reading their opponents or bullying them...that's the question. I think Hellumuth could do the first but now tries the 2nd...(to poor results) -

Having said that, I have no clue how Ivey plays, but you don't win 3 WSOP events in one year by being a bully who can't put a player on a hand....bluffing only goes SO far..

Or maybe when you're younger you just tend to be more unpredictible...as for me...I'm very unpredicitable...not because I'm trying to throw you off how I played from the previous hand...it's cause I can't REMEMBER how I played the previous hand....LOL

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[Mikey]

This could be wrong, but I'll tell you, what I heard.

Phil Ivey used to work as a telemarketer, all day long he would read poker books....then...after work, he would play with the guys......

1-3 Stud
1-5 Stud

From what I heard, he used to win almost every night they played for at least $300.

I also heard, that he was so rock tight, that he would throw away some hands, in hold'em without second thought and stud too.

But think about it......he read poker books too....and he played......

did he just read poker books?
With a natural talent to read hands, and body language gives him the ability to play cards at such a high level of expertise.


Also I watched him playing 75-150 hold'em....and on most hands, he wouldn't even play his hand, his whole strategy to me looked as if every single time he would be playing the player. He would just stare at them, talk to them and try to get a feel for what they hand. I've never seen a person so relaxed at a poker game, there was no tension at all in his body; This also helps because he's harder to read. Physically he's not involved in the game.
It's a real pleasure to watch that man play and splash chips with a smile on his face.



He didn't fare too well in the 75-150 game, so he took a break from Hold'em and started playing
$300-$600 7 stud HEADS UP with some guy.

[Fitz]

That's an interesting background, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were true. I spent 16 years as a telemarketing manager, and the best telemarketers have many of the skills you look for in a good poker player. They have to have a touch of the con, an ability to sell their prospects/opponents. They have to be able to read people very quickly to decide what is the best approach with this prospect/opponent. Universally, the best telemarketers, like the best poker players have balls the size of Volkswagons; it takes a lot of cajones to pitch on the phone or play poker for a living. The nature of poker and telemarketing are very similar too; they are each a grind where you exploit small advantages. In poker you look to make one big bet an hour; we always taught our telemarketers they needed to make 500 calls a day to get the numbers they needed to do well.

Interesting, I wonder what Ivey was pitching?

Good luck,

[Bill Murphy]

This by his own admission. That 20K bankroll doesn't prove much; he got real hot in some home PLHE games for awhile. I've never heard ANYONE say he can play side games at all. When he's right, he's certainly top two or three in HE tournaments, but I think over the past few years he's fallen prey to out-thinking himself, and trying to prove to the poker world that he's a great theoretician. He handed the 2001 Biggie to Carlos & $5K O8 to Scotty on silver platters.

Everyone I've asked says Ivey can play, but he's also running white hot, too. Both he and John Juanda are strong at both side & tourneys, but everyone I've talked to says Allen Cunningham is the best 'young' player, though he doesn't play as much now. Went back to school, apparently; just picking his poker spots now. Smart kid, very smart. See Seed, Huck; etc.