To those familiar with law school/the admissions process... [Archive]

nickg1532

06-29-2005, 11:42 AM

It's the summer before my senior year in college, and this means that in the next few months I'm going to begin applying to law schools. Just a little background into my numbers before I ask any questions: I currently have a 4.0 GPA at a small private liberal arts school. I just got my lsat score back and scored a 161 (meh, I should of done a bit better, but it's not horrible).

Anyways, I have started to do some research, and am slowly gaining info on which schools might be A) long shots (but worthwile for me to take a shot at); B) Good fits (schools I would have a pretty good chance of getting into); and C) some safe bets just in case. The point of this post isn't for you guys to simply recommend which schools I should be applying to, although if you have any suggestions, they are certainly welcome. But without knowing more about myself and my goals, I wouldn't expect you to be able to compile a solid list of recommendations.

Rather, I have a few other questions I am just curious about: To those who share (or know people with) similar numbers, where did you/they apply? Where did you get accepted? Where did you end up going? Do you think you made any mistakes along the way (ie. applied to too many schools out of your league, should have applied to some better schools, should have chosen a different school, etc.). To anyone else, do you feel your law school was overrated/underrated? Are there schools that maybe don't have excellent reputations, but are actually excellent schools? Are there schools with great reps that probably don't deserve the high rankings?

Is there anything else you wish you knew when you were applying to law school that you know now? And any other tips/hints you might have.

Anyways, sorry for the long-winded post. I appreciate any input you guys are willing to give on this issue. I know a bunch of you have been in my position and probably have some excellent advice.

Thanks

IronDragon1

06-29-2005, 11:43 AM

Princeton review Law school site (http://www.princetonreview.com/law/default.asp)

nickg1532

06-29-2005, 11:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Princeton review Law school site (http://www.princetonreview.com/law/default.asp)

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, and believe me, I'm not using OOT as a substitute for doing real research. However, there might be opinions that don't show up in the books that might be worthwile.

IronDragon1

06-29-2005, 11:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Princeton review Law school site (http://www.princetonreview.com/law/default.asp)

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, and believe me, I'm not using OOT as a substitute for doing real research. However, there might be opinions that don't show up in the books that might be worthwile.

[/ QUOTE ]

Check the message board

nickg1532

06-29-2005, 11:52 AM

I will, thanks /images/graemlins/smile.gif

hobbsmann

06-29-2005, 12:00 PM

An ex-girlfriend of mine from undergrad applied to schools this last year, had similar grades/scores as you, and got accpeted to the fringe top 10 schools (Cal, UCLA, Northwestern, Georgetown).

OtisTheMarsupial

06-29-2005, 12:05 PM

OK, I got 165 (93rd percentile) on the LSAT and my GPA was 3.62. I applied to Boyd School of Law in Las Vegas (UNLV) and not to any other school. I had a full time job and family in Vegas that I didn't want to leave. (I am a part-time student).

Also, well, I knew I'd get in (no stress, less money) and since I did my undergrad there, I was familar with the campus.

That said, I think it's a great school, but I think I personally would have taken my education more seriously if I had left town. See, I'm just getting average grades now and it's kinda bumming me out.

Also, I applied late (yeah, I procrastinate a lot) so I missed out on some good scholarships. And, if I had gone to another school, I might have gotten nearly a full ride just from my LSAT score. Alas, the deed is done and I'm plugging through to the end.

Basically, I'm just sayiing there are many considerations and you shouldn't rush into it.

Hope this helps!

Shajen

06-29-2005, 12:11 PM

Come on, be honest now. You're not really a marsupial, are you?

nickg1532

06-29-2005, 12:20 PM

It does help and thanks for responding. Yeah, I'm not planning on rushing anything, and you're right--there is very much to consider. This is why I'm posting here: I'm skeptical about some of the "rankings" and I think there is more to consider beyond just what the princeton review or usnews have to say. That is not to discount their rankings, but getting different perspectives is important too. Anyways, I appreciate your input, but honestly I don't think moving to vegas is a good idea for me /images/graemlins/grin.gif

lucas9000

06-29-2005, 12:29 PM

background: i went to a small, specialized school in ny that is very academically challenging. when i went there no one i knew (including faculty) could remember anyone granduating with a 4.0. the valedictorian of my class graduated with a 3.9 or 3.95 and it was very impressive. i graduated with a 3.8something (magna cum laude), easily equivalent to a 4.0 at a more "normal" school. i think i got a 164 on my lsat. so, i think i fit your criteria for people with similar stats. now to your questions...

[ QUOTE ]
Rather, I have a few other questions I am just curious about: To those who share (or know people with) similar numbers, where did you/they apply?

[/ QUOTE ]

preface: i wanted to try somewhere outside the northeast, and the southeast was strictly out of the question. hence my relative lack of application to northeast schools. here's where i applied:

harvard
yale (joint law degree and forestry masters)
usc
univ of colorado
univ of hawaii (it's <2 miles from waikiki beach!)
lewis & clark (i thought i might want to do environmental law)
berkeley

[ QUOTE ]
Where did you get accepted?

[/ QUOTE ]

univ of hawaii
univ of colorado
lewis & clark
yale graduate school, but not law school
waitlisted at usc and i told them not to bother

[ QUOTE ]
Where did you end up going?

[/ QUOTE ]

univ of colorado

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think you made any mistakes along the way (ie. applied to too many schools out of your league, should have applied to some better schools, should have chosen a different school, etc.).

[/ QUOTE ]

i think i should have stayed in the northeast, and maybe even stayed in ny.

[ QUOTE ]
To anyone else, do you feel your law school was overrated/underrated?

[/ QUOTE ]

univ. of colorado is definitely underrated because its rank got shot by the crappy building and library. the buildings were just horrible. but, construction is underway on entirely new facilities, and it's going to be sweet. expect it to move up a few spots once that's done, which i think is going to be next summer.

[ QUOTE ]
Are there schools that maybe don't have excellent reputations, but are actually excellent schools?

[/ QUOTE ]

see my next answer. there are a lot of great state schools that don't necessarily get adequate props.

[ QUOTE ]
Are there schools with great reps that probably don't deserve the high rankings?

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i think a lot of the non-top 20 expensive private schools simply aren't worth it. (meaning, if you are paying for law school yourself like me, the cost simply isn't worth it...you can do as good or better for less money.)

[ QUOTE ]
And any other tips/hints you might have.

[/ QUOTE ]

do not discount the FACT that the majority of law school graduates practice in the area where they went to law school. also once you are admitted, it's a big pain to move to another state because you will need to get admitted in that state. when planning your law school applications, seriously consider this.

nickg1532

06-29-2005, 12:34 PM

excellent post..thanks

OtisTheMarsupial

06-29-2005, 12:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Come on, be honest now. You're not really a marsupial, are you?

[/ QUOTE ]

You miss PokerJo, don't you?

CollinEstes

06-29-2005, 12:50 PM

Hey you might want to look at the Boston College Law School Matrix. You can input your GPA and LSAT and then it will show you which are the highest tier schools where you have a good/great chance of being accepted.

As for schools be overrated I have heard that alot of people really don't like the University of Chicago's professors. Most people have said they would rather go to Northwestern even though UC has such a good rep. I currently go to South Texas School of Law in Houston but did well in my first yearand was able to transfer and start at University of Houston in the fall. I started out in much worst shape then you I had a 3.0 GPA and a 161 LSAt but I always intended on going to UH, when I didn't get in I was told to go to South Texas and do well and I would have good shot at a transfer since alot of students quit after L1, and I did.

Some schools I have heard some great things about are: University of Texas, George Washington in D.C. (sweet campus), Vanderbilt, and Northwestern in Chicago. Those are some in the top 25 I think that I have had friends tell me they really like.

One thing to think about is this. I have a friend was an attroney at a large firm in Houston (Fulbright & Juworski) and he graduated in the top 10% from Baylor. He said when he started there he was working with guys from Yale, Harvard, and the other really expense top tier schools. And he said you know what they graduated in the top 25% of those schools and got the same job I got making the same amount a year with the same oppurtunity to move up in the firm, the only difference is I was in debt about 1/10 as much as they where from school loans. I think he point is law school is what you make of it.

Where you want to practice law should be a consideration too, you can always take a prep course in another state and pass the state bar but it just means that much more work, than if you go to school in the state you want to practice law in.

One more thing, stay the hell out of Louisania. Don't go to Tulane unless you want to live in New Orleans. Their laws are all messed up.

Good Luck

nickg1532

06-29-2005, 01:03 PM

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I think he point is law school is what you make of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have found this to be true certainly at the undergraduate level. As your friend points out, this very well might be the case at law school too.

I may have to do some research on Houston. I'm not sure if I want to move that far south, but it might be worth considering. I have heard that it is a pretty good school.

Anyways, thanks for the response.

Shajen

06-29-2005, 01:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Come on, be honest now. You're not really a marsupial, are you?

[/ QUOTE ]

You miss PokerJo, don't you?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but I do need some excitement in my life.

rtrombone

06-29-2005, 01:20 PM

Why do you want to go to law school? It's not a good idea for most people. You incur a shitload of debt and have to get a shitty-ass job to get out from under it. Job satisfaction isn't exactly high among attorneys and the attrition rate at firms is staggering.

I went to a good school and worked at one of the most prestigious firms in the country. I don't recommend it to any of my friends.

That said, you should check out the Greedy Associates boards at infirmation.com. At the very least you'll get an idea of what kind of [censored] coworkers await you.

bogey

06-29-2005, 01:23 PM

Apply to schools in the area you want to practice. This is more important than rankings unless you can get into a top 10 school. It may also be better to go to schools ranked 10-20 than one where you want to practice but its a closer decision. With only knowing your scores I think you will have a hard time getting into top 10 schools but will have a good shot at some in the 10-20 range. Only really the top 10 schools have true national recruiting programs and even with a lot of these its harder to get jobs in certain parts of the country. If you know where you want to practice I highly recommend you try and go to school there.

lucas9000

06-29-2005, 01:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you want to go to law school? It's not a good idea for most people.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is true.

nickg1532

06-29-2005, 02:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you want to go to law school? It's not a good idea for most people. You incur a shitload of debt and have to get a shitty-ass job to get out from under it. Job satisfaction isn't exactly high among attorneys and the attrition rate at firms is staggering.

I went to a good school and worked at one of the most prestigious firms in the country. I don't recommend it to any of my friends.

That said, you should check out the Greedy Associates boards at infirmation.com. At the very least you'll get an idea of what kind of [censored] coworkers await you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I appreciate your concern, and I agree with much of what you have said. It is not for most people, as there are downsides to picking this career path. However, I have given this a lot of thought, and I'm pretty confident this is what I want to do. I have talked to many lawyers who genuinely enjoy their jobs, so I hope that will be me in a few years. There's no way of knowing for sure, but I think this is the right direction for me to head.

CollinEstes

06-29-2005, 02:24 PM

A JD can open many doors other than being a practicing attorney. I am actually applying for the MBA/JD progam at UH and hope to be able to graduate with both degrees in two years.

Princeton review has a list of schools that they rank in order of best education for the money.

I really wanted to go to George Washington, not really sure why, I think the idea of living in D.C. for 3 years was appealing to me but in hindsight I am glad that I didn't get the score needed to get in there because I really don't think the cost is worth it in the long run.

beta1607

06-29-2005, 02:29 PM

I know many people who went to Willam and Mary Law School and absolutly loved it. It is a small school that often gets over looked when people are doing applications but it is a beautiful area and well respected.

Also, just because you are going to law school doesn't mean you have to be a lawyer. Law degrees are in huge demand on Capitol Hill and throughout the government,political and non-profit worlds. The pay is less but the job satisfaction is very high and most importantly you actually do work that makes a difference in millions of peoples lives. Also, if its a consideration these jobs can lead to very high paying jobs later.

nickg1532

06-29-2005, 02:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I know many people who went to Willam and Mary Law School and absolutly loved it. It is a small school that often gets over looked when people are doing applications but it is a beautiful area and well respected.

Also, just because you are going to law school doesn't mean you have to be a lawyer. Law degrees are in huge demand on Capitol Hill and throughout the government,political and non-profit worlds. The pay is less but the job satisfaction is very high and most importantly you actually do work that makes a difference in millions of peoples lives. Also, if its a consideration these jobs can lead to very high paying jobs later.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an excellent point. At this point I see myself using a law degree to actually practice, but if for some reason things change, having such a degree can certainly help in opening other doors.

freekobe

06-29-2005, 02:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
do not discount the FACT that the majority of law school graduates practice in the area where they went to law school. also once you are admitted, it's a big pain to move to another state because you will need to get admitted in that state. when planning your law school applications, seriously consider this.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is partially wrong. Going to school outside of the area where you want to practice/live is not a bad thing IF YOU GO TO A TOP SCHOOL.

If you go outside the Top 10, practicing somewhere other than the location of your school will be difficult. If you go to Harvard, you can go anywhere.

if you go USC, you'll have a lot of trouble working in NY.

Take that into consideration.

As a law school grad working at a big firm in NYC, you are making a HUGE MISTAKE if you don't go to the best school you get into (igoring scholarships, if money is an issue).

Don't go to the Univ. of Hawaii over the University of Pennslyvania because you want to get a tan. You will regret that the rest of your life. I can promise you that.

Law school is about keeping options open. Hawaii closes doors; Penn opens them. Obviously, this applies to more schools, but go to the best school you can. You won't regret it.

freekobe

06-29-2005, 02:52 PM

The reason that previous post was wrong is because "getting admitted" in a state other than where you went to school is not a big deal. You just take a different bar exam. Sure, you learn a few state-specific things in law school, but that is about 2% of what you learn. Plus, TONS of people take the bar in other states - it's not something to get bent out of shape about.

bogey

06-29-2005, 02:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am actually applying for the MBA/JD progam at UH and hope to be able to graduate with both degrees in two years.

[/ QUOTE ]

and how exactly do you plan on condensing a 2 year and a 3 year degree which done jointly usually takes 4 years into 2? good luck with that

freekobe

06-29-2005, 02:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
To anyone else, do you feel your law school was overrated/underrated? Are there schools that maybe don't have excellent reputations, but are actually excellent schools? Are there schools with great reps that probably don't deserve the high rankings?

[/ QUOTE ]

Trust me - overrated/underrated doesn't matter. This is not a restaurant. It's law school. When go to apply for a job and your resume says New England School of Law and not Columbia or Penn, you won't get a chance to tell the interviewer that "NE School of Law is really underrated."

People don't care. They have to judge you based on what they know. You can't be positive what you want to do after law school - keep your options open. Doors close faster when you go a mediocre school - that's not an insult to people who did, it's a fact of life. That's not to say great minds / great people didn't go to bad law schools. They did. But it's just harder to get where you're going if you go to a lesser school. Facts are facts.

AND.....if you want another tip - do well in your first yr. It really is all that matters. Get in the top 10%. if you do that at most schools, you'll be able to land a good job. Do that at a top school and you'll be able to go just about anywhere you want (clerkship, big law firm, small law firm, etc).

Play a lot of golf and poker during your 3rd yr and maintain a decent GPA. Enjoy it as much as you can. And if you go to a law firm after, prepare to be reasonably unhappy.

CollinEstes

06-29-2005, 03:03 PM

I already have 1.5 years of my JD finished. And I can take some MBA classes in the summer. It is possible but not easy. More likely I have 3 more years.

lucas9000

06-29-2005, 03:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
do not discount the FACT that the majority of law school graduates practice in the area where they went to law school. also once you are admitted, it's a big pain to move to another state because you will need to get admitted in that state. when planning your law school applications, seriously consider this.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is partially wrong. Going to school outside of the area where you want to practice/live is not a bad thing IF YOU GO TO A TOP SCHOOL.

If you go outside the Top 10, practicing somewhere other than the location of your school will be difficult. If you go to Harvard, you can go anywhere.

if you go USC, you'll have a lot of trouble working in NY.

Take that into consideration.

As a law school grad working at a big firm in NYC, you are making a HUGE MISTAKE if you don't go to the best school you get into (igoring scholarships, if money is an issue).

Don't go to the Univ. of Hawaii over the University of Pennslyvania because you want to get a tan. You will regret that the rest of your life. I can promise you that.

Law school is about keeping options open. Hawaii closes doors; Penn opens them. Obviously, this applies to more schools, but go to the best school you can. You won't regret it.

[/ QUOTE ]

obviously top 10 schools are an exception. however, only a small fraction of law students go to those schools. that's why i said "majority" and not "all." i think you're wrong about going to the best school you can, if you're deciding best by rank. going to univ of colorado (i don't know its exact rank but i think it's near the bottom of the top 50), just because it's the highest ranked school you could get into, when you don't want to live in colorado long term would be a huge mistake.

nickg1532

06-29-2005, 03:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To anyone else, do you feel your law school was overrated/underrated? Are there schools that maybe don't have excellent reputations, but are actually excellent schools? Are there schools with great reps that probably don't deserve the high rankings?

[/ QUOTE ]

Trust me - overrated/underrated doesn't matter. This is not a restaurant. It's law school. When go to apply for a job and your resume says New England School of Law and not Columbia or Penn, you won't get a chance to tell the interviewer that "NE School of Law is really underrated."

People don't care. They have to judge you based on what they know. You can't be positive what you want to do after law school - keep your options open. Doors close faster when you go a mediocre school - that's not an insult to people who did, it's a fact of life. That's not to say great minds / great people didn't go to bad law schools. They did. But it's just harder to get where you're going if you go to a lesser school. Facts are facts.

AND.....if you want another tip - do well in your first yr. It really is all that matters. Get in the top 10%. if you do that at most schools, you'll be able to land a good job. Do that at a top school and you'll be able to go just about anywhere you want (clerkship, big law firm, small law firm, etc).

Play a lot of golf and poker during your 3rd yr and maintain a decent GPA. Enjoy it as much as you can. And if you go to a law firm after, prepare to be reasonably unhappy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good advice. I'd like to think employers would be open-minded about candidates from less prestigious schools, and I was hoping it wasn't all about the "name", but I trust what you're telling me and can see how this would be the case.

lucas9000

06-29-2005, 03:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The reason that previous post was wrong is because "getting admitted" in a state other than where you went to school is not a big deal. You just take a different bar exam. Sure, you learn a few state-specific things in law school, but that is about 2% of what you learn. Plus, TONS of people take the bar in other states - it's not something to get bent out of shape about.

[/ QUOTE ]

sure, you can go take another state's bar exam, but you still need to get a job. like it or not, a lot of job decisions are not solely based on the academic credentials of the applicants (this sentence brought to you by captain obvious). a local law student who worked at a firm over the summer during law school and did a great job is far more likely to get the entry-level associate position than someone coming from out of state who passed the bar and is also applying for that position (with the obvious exception if the out of state person graduated from a very prestigious school).

CollinEstes

06-29-2005, 03:12 PM

It isn't always about the name. Like the example I told you, Fulbright and Juworski is one of the largest defense firms in the US and one of the tops places to work in Houston, they interview canidates from Harvard, Yale, Penn, UT as well as South Texas, Houston, Baylor. The difference is the will interview someone in the top 25% from Harvard, but only take people in the top 10% or top 1% from Houston or South Texas.

Getting the interview is the main purpose your school does for you, once you get the interview your creditals are good enough to be hired at that point it is just how well you interview and sell yourself. (This is coming from several different attorneys I know who work or have worked there, so it is second hand)

nickg1532

06-29-2005, 03:47 PM

Well I think you're both right in a sense. You're point that it is not ALL about the name is probably valid; many people have gone to "lesser" schools and still managed to get excellent jobs. Going to such a school doesn't mean you're doomed to fail. His point, however, is that going to the better schools simply gives you more opportunities. It opens more doors (certainly an interview is an example of a door). So you're right that I can be sucessful going either route, but the top-school-route will make achieving that sucess (much?) easier.

freekobe

06-29-2005, 03:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It isn't always about the name. Like the example I told you, Fulbright and Juworski is one of the largest defense firms in the US and one of the tops places to work in Houston, they interview canidates from Harvard, Yale, Penn, UT as well as South Texas, Houston, Baylor. The difference is the will interview someone in the top 25% from Harvard, but only take people in the top 10% or top 1% from Houston or South Texas.

Getting the interview is the main purpose your school does for you, once you get the interview your creditals are good enough to be hired at that point it is just how well you interview and sell yourself. (This is coming from several different attorneys I know who work or have worked there, so it is second hand)

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't disagree with this. What I'm saying is that bigger name schools give you opportunities.

Furthermore, it's better to have gone to a big-name school if you don't want to work at a law firm but want to get into business, politics, etc.

I do agree than once you get below the Top 25 or so, the intangibles matter. Location, scholarships, specialities, etc. But if you can get into a "Top" school, turning it down would be, in my opinion, a big mistake.

freekobe

06-29-2005, 03:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well I think you're both right in a sense. You're point that it is not ALL about the name is probably valid; many people have gone to "lesser" schools and still managed to get excellent jobs. Going to such a school doesn't mean you're doomed to fail. His point, however, is that going to the better schools simply gives you more opportunities. It opens more doors (certainly an interview is an example of a door). So you're right that I can be sucessful going either route, but the top-school-route will make achieving that sucess (much?) easier.

[/ QUOTE ]

This post is really an endorsement for top schools and for what I was saying. You'll have more flexibility later in life. If you go to a lesser school, making top 5 or 10% is still REALLY tough. People go to lesser schools for lots of reasons, and it's not always because they couldn't go elsewhere. Most people who go to law school are pretty smart, so the competition will be intense for the most part. Giving yourself flexibility to finish in the top 25% is really nice.

on_thg

06-29-2005, 05:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Play a lot of golf and poker during your 3rd yr and maintain a decent GPA. Enjoy it as much as you can. And if you go to a law firm after, prepare to be [censored] miserable

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

As for the OP, I think quite a bit of good advice has been given. Where you end up will probably end up being some function of (1) where you want to live, (2) where you can afford to go and (3) where you can get in.

If you can get into one of the very best schools with your numbers, I'd say go for it unless your ideal future is living in a small town running your own firm or something else "small time" (NTTAWWT) in which case all you need is a degree. Any degree. If you want to be "big time", working in a big firm in a big city, nothing opens doors like a degree from Harvard, Yale, Stanford etc.

That being said, if you don't get into someplace really top notch, you might think about skipping the rest (like, say, anything beyond the top 10 or so) and going to a strong local school if you know where you want to end up. If you wanted to be in Minneapolis, for example, going to the U of MN would be a much better play than going to Georgetown, Hastings, Virginia, Penn, etc. (I'm just making up examples here, I haven't looked at the rankings in years).

The wild card of course is where you can afford to go. Knowing what I know now, I would never again consider taking on a significant amount of student loan debt in order to go to a "better" yet not Top 10 school. In most cases, it just isn't worth it.

Okay, enough pointless rambling. Brain fried from too much law stuff.

lucas9000

06-29-2005, 06:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
That being said, if you don't get into someplace really top notch, you might think about skipping the rest (like, say, anything beyond the top 10 or so) and going to a strong local school if you know where you want to end up.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is the best advice for the op because with his numbers it is highly unlikely he'll get in to a top 10 school. this is not an insult, because i would say the same about myself when i applied. so, all this discussion about what you can do with a degree from harvard/yale/chicago/etc is irrelevant. but you'll never know if you don't apply...so i say if you can afford the extra admission fees, apply to some top 10 schools.

gvibes

06-29-2005, 06:38 PM

3.7 (top whatever engineering school)
173 (average)

Applied:
Harvard
Columbia
Chicago
Northwestern
Penn
NYU
Michigan
Illinois
Wisconsin

Accepted:
NYU

Waitlisted:
Harvard
Columbia
Chicago
Northwestern
Penn
Michigan
Illinois
Wisconsin

I applied late.

And, honestly, if you don't get into a top 14 school, or a cheap school where you want to work, don't go.

gvibes

06-29-2005, 06:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Good advice. I'd like to think employers would be open-minded about candidates from less prestigious schools, and I was hoping it wasn't all about the "name", but I trust what you're telling me and can see how this would be the case.

[/ QUOTE ]

First job out, it's mostly school and grades.

scalf

06-30-2005, 12:41 AM

/images/graemlins/smile.gif only two questions are important for law school admission...

1. are you a liing, cheating, no good filthy sniveling cowardly cheat?

2. are you a really proficient at the above?

this is all that is needed..

think about it!!

bill clinton: law school grad
hillary: ditto

gl

/images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

HDPM

06-30-2005, 10:46 AM

"univ. of colorado is definitely underrated because its rank got shot by the crappy building and library. the buildings were just horrible. but, construction is underway on entirely new facilities, and it's going to be sweet. expect it to move up a few spots once that's done, which i think is going to be next summer"

I thought the building was the least of its problems. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I must admit it served its purposes for me, although I didn't like much about CU or the law school. It was cheap and I got the training I wanted.

Monkeyslacks

06-30-2005, 11:31 AM

I just graduated from Georgetown. I had a 3.8 from a small liberal arts school, a 173 on the LSAT, and several excellent letters of recommendation. As a result, I was accepted as a "Dean's Scholar" and given a full-ride scholarship. I have also taught courses for PowerScore on the LSAT.

I went through the application process twice. The first time, my applications were submitted at the buzzer and I wasn't happy with where I was accepted, so I took a year off and did it all again the next year.

I just skimmed the thread, so some of the stuff below may have already been mentioned. Consider doing the following.

1. Take the LSAT again. You have time to do this and your current score is going to limit your options. The test has nothing to do with law school but the top schools all rely on it heavily in making their decisions.

2. Consider taking the early acceptance route. I'm not sure how many schools offer this option, but I know of one person who got into Georgetown with pretty mediocre numbers because she did this.

3. Start early and be on top of all aspects of your application. It's great that you're thinking about this now, because it is quite a production to get everything in order. I split my undergrad between two schools and obviously needed transcripts sent from both. I sent a transcript request to one of them and found out 2 months later that they hadn't been sent because I had an unpaid $3 library fine.

4. Work on getting stellar letters of recommendation. This means that you do more than just ask someone to write a letter for you. Give them information about yourself that will aid them in writing something compelling. There usually isn't a cap on the number of letters you can submit either. I had 4: 3 professors and 1 from my employer. I had them give me the letters in sealed envelopes and had them write one to a school that I wasn't applying to in order to make sure that what they wrote was acceptable.

5. Write a compelling personal statement. Spend a lot of time on this and have at least 5 people read it. I spoke to the Dean of Admissions at a local law school and he gave me the following advice: write it as though you are trying to convince the reader that they will enjoy eating lunch with you for the next three years. This was effective for me.

6. Tour your prospective schools. I looked at all of the schools I applied to and weeded out several based on the campus and location. This was really just based on the way the school felt to me and I found it to be really valuable in my decision making process. Admissions offices are more than happy to give tours, answer questions, and give you some information about their strengths. Take advantage of this.

I haven't time to get into my own law school experience, but will say that Georgetown is an excellent school and I was happy to end up there. Furthermore, and I realize this was said in posts above but it really cannot be stressed enough, law school is what you make of it. It is your own experience and you should treat it that way. It will be bad or good based upon the decisions you make there.

Good luck.

slickpoppa

06-30-2005, 11:34 AM

There is a name for people like you at law school: gunner

renodoc

06-30-2005, 11:51 AM

Hmmmm. Free research on OOT. OK, I'm in.

I'll be 40 this year. Practicing retina surgeon, been to school for 27 years if you count kindergarten. Love my job but know that I can't do this fulltime for 20 more years. Have been considering law school for some time either as a jumping off point for politics or consulting. I would want to go to school close by for family reasons.

My choices:

UNLV
Sacramento
Boalt ???

I think there are more and more geezers like myself going to law school these days. How high must I score on the LSAT to have a shot? Are they really going to look at my GPA from 20 years ago? Am I going to have the ROdney Dangerfield experience?

Monkeyslacks

06-30-2005, 12:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]

There is a name for people like you at law school: gunner

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite the opposite. Unfortunately(?) I was more poker player than law student and skipped almost as many classes as I attended (went to Con Law II for exactly 1/2 of a class).

Nailed the admission process though!

OtisTheMarsupial

06-30-2005, 12:40 PM

lucas9000

06-30-2005, 12:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I must admit it served its purposes for me, although I didn't like much about CU or the law school. It was cheap and I got the training I wanted.

[/ QUOTE ]

i hope i didn't come across as selling it. law school was not a very fun time, and i feel no attachment to cu.

freekobe

06-30-2005, 01:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmmm. Free research on OOT. OK, I'm in.

I'll be 40 this year. Practicing retina surgeon, been to school for 27 years if you count kindergarten. Love my job but know that I can't do this fulltime for 20 more years. Have been considering law school for some time either as a jumping off point for politics or consulting. I would want to go to school close by for family reasons.

My choices:

UNLV
Sacramento
Boalt ???

I think there are more and more geezers like myself going to law school these days. How high must I score on the LSAT to have a shot? Are they really going to look at my GPA from 20 years ago? Am I going to have the ROdney Dangerfield experience?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because law schools are constantly looked for ways to diversify their class makeup, the fact that you're 40 will be a HUGE help. There won't be that many applicants in your age group. Throw in the fact that you're a surgeon and you should have a good shot at Berkeley. Of course, your LSAT score has to be good, but I doubt they'd place a heavy emphasis on your GPA, certainly not as much weight as they would for someone coming straight out of school.

Before you do this, realize that it's three yrs of school with no guarantee that it will help you get into politics. Furthermore, you'll incur 150,000 of debt, PLUS you won't be making any money (assuming you go full-time). That's a big burden with the potential for zero reward.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, I'm saying it's not a no-brainer move. Politics is largely about connections. Chances are, you will make more connections that can help you in politics at the Berkeley than you would at a smaller, lesser-known school.

freekobe

06-30-2005, 01:28 PM