$11's small PP (2 Hands)

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

How would you play these two hands?

Game 1 - My thoughts: Rags flopped, I must have best hand...

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t1395)
Hero (t1320)
CO (t2565)
Button (t655)
SB (t540)
BB (t1525)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls t50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls t50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (t175) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets t450</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1270 (All-In)</font>, Button folds, BB calls t820.

Turn: (t2715) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t2715) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t2715

Game 2 - Villain is the one player I did not have notes on

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (3 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t2896)
Button (t2710)
SB (t2394)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t1200</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t2896 (All-In)</font>, Button calls t1510 (All-In).

Flop: (t5806) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t5806) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: (t5806) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t5806

[octaveshift]

I fold both of these preflop.

[Ixnert]

Hand 1: With a flop like 642 and that postflop bet from the button, there are lots of hands you could be behind to that would have called but wouldn't have raised preflop (anything that hit trips, obviously, plus any 77+ PP and A6s). The preflop pot isn't enough to make it worth the risk that button really does have a hand when he raises postflop.

Hand 2: You've got to expect that worst case, button has two overcards to your low pair and you're going for a coinflip. I don't think this is necessarily terrible, but you're not going to knock button off of his hand with your push. Maybe a good time for a stop and go?

[GtrHtr]

1. Fold PF.

2. No reads? Fold although some will push this one.

Gtr

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

Hand 1: I am surprised that you and Qctave say to fold preflop. I thought that 2+2 concensus is to limp w/ pp's?

Hand 2: I understand why it might have been better to fold to his aggression. I suspected that he had an unpaired hand or else he would have pushed, so I wanted to try and steel.

[mlagoo]

1: I agree, I don't like folding this preflop. I'm not sure why people are saying that. On the other hand, I'm playing for set value... I don't think I fall in love with that flop the way you did.

2: This seems like a pretty nifty time for a stop-n-go. You don't have any fold equity preflop, but you do postflop. And you don't have a monster. stop-n-goooooo

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

[ QUOTE ]
1: I agree, I don't like folding this preflop. I'm not sure why people are saying that. On the other hand, I'm playing for set value... I don't think I fall in love with that flop the way you did.

2: This seems like a pretty nifty time for a stop-n-go. You don't have any fold equity preflop, but you do postflop. And you don't have a monster. stop-n-goooooo

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I have ever used stop and go intentionally. I understand what it is, but always forget about it. Is it very successful?

[Uppercut]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold both of these preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

In hand #1, hero has 26 times the Big Blind. Why would you fold the 55 preflop? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[octaveshift]

[ QUOTE ]
1: I agree, I don't like folding this preflop. I'm not sure why people are saying that. On the other hand, I'm playing for set value... I don't think I fall in love with that flop the way you did.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, If you don't have the discipline to get away from a whiffed flop with 55, you should fold it PF.

If you are playing for "set value" (the only way to play 55, really) you are looking for a hell of a lot more limpers for this to be a +EV call.

I suppose an argument can be made that with such a deep stack combined with the implied odds if you hit, that limping t50 isn't such a big deal.

[mlagoo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1: I agree, I don't like folding this preflop. I'm not sure why people are saying that. On the other hand, I'm playing for set value... I don't think I fall in love with that flop the way you did.

2: This seems like a pretty nifty time for a stop-n-go. You don't have any fold equity preflop, but you do postflop. And you don't have a monster. stop-n-goooooo

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I have ever used stop and go intentionally. I understand what it is, but always forget about it. Is it very successful?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, on that particular flop, it would have been successful against anything but another (higher) pocket pair, which would have called you preflop and dominated you regardless. And many flops are going to be like this -- complete whiffs for overcards that would have odds to call your allin preflop. Or they may hit second pair, or something along those lines.

So yes, it is very successful. It at least gives you one more chance for a fold, which is good, since chances are you are at best a coinflip.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1: I agree, I don't like folding this preflop. I'm not sure why people are saying that. On the other hand, I'm playing for set value... I don't think I fall in love with that flop the way you did.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, If you don't have the discipline to get away from a whiffed flop with 55, you should fold it PF.

If you are playing for "set value" (the only way to play 55, really) you are looking for a hell of a lot more limpers for this to be a +EV call.

I suppose an argument can be made that with such a deep stack combined with the implied odds if you hit, that limping t50 isn't such a big deal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I generally have no problem folding PP when over cards hit. However, 6 high on flop... this was difficult...

[mlagoo]

[ QUOTE ]
I generally have no problem folding PP when over cards hit. However, 6 high on flop... this was difficult...

[/ QUOTE ]

To me, the ridiculous overbet from the BB means one of two things: 1) I hit my top pair and I don't want any of you overcards drawing out on me, or 2) My 77 is probably good right now and i don't want any of you overcards drawing out on me.

Or maybe it means he hit a pair of 4s and wants to steal a rag flop. I just don't think he commits that many chips with less than top pair. I would have liked that flop when it first came down -- but after that huge bet, probably would have laid down the 55.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I generally have no problem folding PP when over cards hit. However, 6 high on flop... this was difficult...

[/ QUOTE ]

To me, the ridiculous overbet from the BB means one of two things: 1) I hit my top pair and I don't want any of you overcards drawing out on me, or 2) My 77 is probably good right now and i don't want any of you overcards drawing out on me.

Or maybe it means he hit a pair of 4s and wants to steal a rag flop. I just don't think he commits that many chips with less than top pair. I would have liked that flop when it first came down -- but after that huge bet, probably would have laid down the 55.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your analysis is perfect. I should have respected his bet. He hit top pair, w/ good kicker.