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View Full Version : Business Screwjob. Flames Welcome! Advice a Bonus.


LeVoodoo
06-29-2005, 02:52 AM
I know this is the last place that I should be asking this question, so I deserve all of the verbal thrashing that I am likely to receive. But frankly, there are enough retarded threads on this forum and another probably won't hurt. Don't be shy though, I have been incredibly stupid and I deserve it. If I just get one pertinent answer, I'll be content.

Here's the story.

I started a business by myself 16 months ago. Soon after it started, I brought in a lifetime friend (from childhood) to work with me at 50%. I had known this friend personally for years through my teenage years, then he moved to Raleigh. For the first three months, the business operated out of Canada. I was the sole owner, he had my word I would give him his cut and that was all. After three months, we transfered the company to the US for business reasons. We registered the business in the states. This time, he was the sole owner, our agreements were again verbal (I'm sure you see where this is going).

Time goes by, the company is small, but earns more than enough for a pair of 20-something year olds. I made enough to pay my bills and then live, I was happy with that since the business was low maintenance. Then I started school. School was just too demanding for me to do both business and study, I decided that school was more important (Yes, I do make a smart decision on occasion). I wasn't letting the company go for nothing. I had put alot of time into it over the past year to build it into what it had become. So, I sold him my 'share'. He was to pay me $X amount for 12 months, in addition to clearing the Amex business card which was under my name. The agreement was verbal, once again. I know this probably sounds like the stupidest thing one could do, but I trusted this person like a brother, and payment was never an issue in the past 16 months.

It's been three months since the 'transaction' took place. I am informed that the money is better spent elsewhere and that the installment I receive on the 1st of July will be the last. This means I will have been paid only a quarter of what I was originally promised. Nice guy that he is, he will still make good on paying off the Amex.

The only proof I have that this payment agreement even took place are chat logs (saved and captured), emails (saved and captured) and the first four checks I received. The agreement was verbal, but there is no recording. There is no contract or formal agreement. Should I just drop it and consider it a lesson learned? The sum of money is not trivial, the outstanding debt is still in the low five-figures, but Poker is providing very well for me and I will be able to survive without it. I do, however, want what is rightfully mine, and if I have any recourse, I will take it to the furthest extent out of principle.

Clearly, I was retarded. All of this could have been avoided with proper documentation of both business ownership and buyout agreement. Do I deserve what happened? Yes, I probably had it coming. Question is, can I do anything about it or would I be wasting my time.

Chairman Wood
06-29-2005, 02:56 AM
Judge Judy man...

LeVoodoo
06-29-2005, 02:58 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Judge Judy man...

[/ QUOTE ]

Awesome. Posting this was already worthwhile. Thanks.

DavidC
06-29-2005, 06:46 AM
Talk to a lawyer in the states and canada, see what htey have to say about it, in terms of the legality of the case and the jurisdiction that it falls under.

Bring printed copies of chat logs / emails to your meetings.

Make notes before you show up.

These guys can be pretty expensive to work with, so try to make sure it goes smoothly.

Sorry to hear about this situation, bro.

OOC, what was the business all about?

--Dave.

jakethebake
06-29-2005, 08:19 AM
[ QUOTE ]
OOC, what was the business all about?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm guessing gay porn. Without two of them, the "friend" just couldn't make a go of it.

AnyAce
06-29-2005, 09:03 AM
I agree with other poster. Collect as much documentation as you can and consult a lawyer, ideally it would be a friend who could give you a quick & dirty read on whether you have a leg to stand on for little or no money.

I am not a lawyer, but my recollection from the legal classes I took in my MBA program is that in some cases verbal agreements are binding.

I would search the 2+2 forums for legal type posts (I seem to recall that during the periodic debates here about how much you can make playing poker vs a "real job" lawyers frequently chime in).

The threat of a lawsuit might be enough to get you a settlement.

Good luck.
AA

Bulldog
06-29-2005, 09:49 AM
[ QUOTE ]
The only proof I have that this payment agreement even took place are chat logs (saved and captured), emails (saved and captured) and the first four checks I received. The agreement was verbal, but there is no recording. There is no contract or formal agreement.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, yes you are a huge idiot. If 75% of your half is what, $15,000, the business is worth at least $40,000. You have a $40,000 business, and you aren't putting these huge transactions in writing?

Second (IANAL), verbal contracts are binding. You certainly could argue that you had a valid contract, and even if your ex-partner lies about it, you have some evidence to make your case. Contact a lawyer, and file a claim.

slickpoppa
06-29-2005, 09:54 AM
Talk to a lawyer. Just because the agreeement was oral doesn't mean it is not legally binding. Hopefully you have enough evidence through the emails and chat logs to make a good case.

One thing you should consider, though, is whether he has the money to pay you if you win.

djoyce003
06-29-2005, 10:20 AM
verbal contracts are legally binding, provided there is some proof that it actually existed. There are various rules, but if the contract can be fullfilled within a year, (which this one can) and it doesn't involve real estate, verbal is usally ok.

Also, if you sold your half for one year of payments you also got robbed. Business are typically worth 3-5 times cash flow, so your share should have been 3 years of payments at a minimum. If you were doing work that he had to hire someone to do, then you could reduce it by some amount, but you let him off cheap and then he screwed you.

Arnfinn Madsen
06-29-2005, 11:08 AM
If you want to be successful in business, you will never have the time to put all important agreements into formal contracts since time is your most precious asset, so I don't consider you lame. In addition many will find you nitty if you always do that and prefer to do business with others than you and then you end up with second best partners.

So important is to know who you can trust. Obviously that was where you failed. The easiest paths to solve it goes through psychology. You could i.e. make a sentence like this:

"I had such an interesting time with this business and cooperating with you, it is a pity that it ends up with me feeling cheated and our friendship destroyed."

AustinDoug
06-29-2005, 11:43 AM
In Texas, this would be an enforceable oral contract since it did not involve real property (land), it did not exceed one year and if the amount of payment was $50,000 or less. The emails and proof of prior payments would be more than sufficient evidence. Also, if you won the suit to enforce the contract, your former partner would be liable for your attorney fees.

Make sure you consult a lawyer in the State where the business is established as laws vary greatly from State to State.

LeVoodoo
06-29-2005, 11:04 PM
Just want to thank you guys for the advice.

Digging through my pile of documents today, I found a stock certificate stating I own 50% of our company as it is officially registered in the State of Delaware. I am assuming that this is proof enough of my ownership in the company. Now it's a matter of proving the terms of our 'buyout' arrangement. The previous checks and chat logs should be sufficient.

Does this change much? I know most of you seemed to think I had a leg to stand on even prior to this.
Thanks again.

ptmusic
06-30-2005, 12:05 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Just want to thank you guys for the advice.

Digging through my pile of documents today, I found a stock certificate stating I own 50% of our company as it is officially registered in the State of Delaware. I am assuming that this is proof enough of my ownership in the company. Now it's a matter of proving the terms of our 'buyout' arrangement. The previous checks and chat logs should be sufficient.

Does this change much? I know most of you seemed to think I had a leg to stand on even prior to this.
Thanks again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep the money he's already sent you and STILL claim 50% ownership of the company. He doesn't have any written contract either....

Then agree to settle.

Also, don't make another enormously stupid mistake by taking any advice from the OOT forum.

-ptmusic

scalf
06-30-2005, 12:15 AM
/images/graemlins/grin.gif..

i say: go to your local wal mart and complain about the minority group members who cloddishly have an overloaded cart with 50+ items in a speedo 20 limit lane...

your chances of cuccess are about the same...

nil

gl

/images/graemlins/frown.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Cry Me A River
06-30-2005, 05:35 PM
[ QUOTE ]

Digging through my pile of documents today, I found a stock certificate stating I own 50% of our company as it is officially registered in the State of Delaware. I am assuming that this is proof enough of my ownership in the company. Now it's a matter of proving the terms of our 'buyout' arrangement. The previous checks and chat logs should be sufficient.


[/ QUOTE ]

Wait until he has violated the terms of the buyout (that is, the next check doesn't show up). Then, fax/email him a copy of the stock certificate along with a note advising him that since he has broken the terms of the contract you are keeping the funds he's paid you to date and will now entertain new, much more expensive offers to buy out your half of the busines. A buy out which will be in the form of a single cash payment and NOT installments this time.

Oh, and hire yourself a lawyer.

kevyk
06-30-2005, 05:55 PM
Wait, you can prove that you own 50% of this business, and your friend still decided to cheat you?

It seems that your erstwhile friend and partner is at a disadvantage here, not you.

Leo99
06-30-2005, 07:00 PM
As Wapner used to say, a contract is meeting of the minds. A rationale judge will clearly see that you didn't intend to simply give away your compay for 1/8th of its value. Very messy. It's not personal, it's business.

IggyWH
06-30-2005, 07:09 PM
For the people who said about the chatlogs and emails...

Most likely they're not worth anything more than to wipe your ass.

I had a small claims case where I bought a baseball card off of a guy, sent it to PSA to be graded and they sent it back saying it was a fake. The guy who I bought it off of agreed to pay be back but then dodged me for months and then finally told me he wasn't paying me anything.

In the court case, I had emails from a PSA rep stating why the card was fake. The judge would not accept them.

Sadly the judge knew jack squat about baseball cards and only awarded me 1/2 my money back. He never gave a reason why I only got 1/2 back and I'm still pissed about that.