Falling in love with AA...

[Pitcher]

Hi Guys,

This happened on a PP 215 on the 1st hand.

UTG calls 15, all fold to the SB. I am the SB call with AA...(yeah, I know, no big raise, but I figure perfect time for rare slowplay hiding out in the SB)
BB checks, so 3 see the flop.

The flop comes 10 /images/graemlins/heart.gif,Q /images/graemlins/club.gif, 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Not a bad flop. No flush draw and while a st8 draw might be there, this looks pretty good. I check the flop and it is checked through....so no re-raise. A queen of /images/graemlins/diamond.gif comes on the turn and I bet out 80. The BB folds and UTG calls. Of course, I am worried about my opponent having the Q. Then another Q appears on the river. Now I am pretty sure that UTG was calling with only a 10. I bet out 125 and UTG raises to 500. I think a bit and re-raise all in. He calls and turns over Q10........uggghhhhh.

Think I fell in love with this AA a bit? Comments welcome.

Pitcher

[pergesu]

Not really, once the third queen hits you'd obviously give him less credit for a queen than you would if there were two. You've got the second nuts, and he could easily be making that play with a T, 99/88, etc. Unless you've got a rock solid read that he'd only make this play with quads, I think it's pretty easy.

[lastchance]

I question your preflop and flop line, but complete SB means you should check-raise flop. I think it's ok, but I'd never do it preflop. I doubt I can just call the river.

[The Yugoslavian]

So his full house that he checked thru on the turn improved to quads?!?! I think clearly you really need to just purchase his luckbox....

Hmm....if you're going to fall in love with AA, this certainly is the hand to do it. Is betting the turn in case someone suddenly got a surprise flush draw helpful? Hmmmm, no, not really....I prefer a continuation check here.

And on the river, a T probably still has to pay off your allin so pushing there should be good too...yeah, I like your whole line (if you insist on completing AA pre-flop, /images/graemlins/wink.gif ).

Yugoslav

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
I question your preflop and flop line, but complete SB means you should check-raise flop. I think it's ok, but I'd never do it preflop. I doubt I can just call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

What don't you like about his flop line? Do you really think he should just call the river?

Yugoslav

[pergesu]

The flop is the first three board cards. There's a round of betting, then we see the turn, and finally the river. lastchance says he can't just call the river. And as we've established, the river is different from the flop.

n00btard

[11t]

So basically you slow played AA and then "unleased the strength of your hand" when the top card on the board paired?

I remember a Smashing Pumpkins song called Bodies where Billy Corgan screams, "Love is suicide!"

NH.

PS. I go broke on the river but I raise preflop. I put the brakes on real quick when the board pairs on the turn and I try to see the showdown as cheap as possible.

[pergesu]

You don't turn up the heat once the third queen hits?

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
The flop is the first three board cards. There's a round of betting, then we see the turn, and finally the river. lastchance says he can't just call the river. And as we've established, the river is different from the flop.

n00btard

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm....thanks? /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/crazy.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Yugoslav
Who thinks he does understand lastchance's post now that he's read it ~10 times....it's just a bit jumbled...but that's cool.<font color="white"> don't maatta....black or whiiiiiiiiiiiiiite...b.abby wooo wowoooo</font>

[lastchance]

Ok, what I'm saying there is that I would have raised preflop and bet the flop. Considering that OP completed preflop, he obviously must check-raise the flop.

The rest of my statement was about having to shove the river.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, what I'm saying there is that I would have raised preflop and bet the flop. Considering that OP completed preflop, he obviously must check-raise the flop.

The rest of my statement was about having to shove the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah...that's like 100x clearer.....but I *did* eventually figure it out...after pergasu's most helpful hints.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I must be rusty with this actually thinking about poker hands thing, /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Yugoslav

[Pitcher]

Hi Guys,

I sure don't think I played this well pre-flop and on the turn. On the river, I am likely to lose all my chips pretty much everytime.

I almost never slowplay, but viewed this as a perfect opportunity. I completed for that reason. On the flop, I went for the check-raise, which I don't have a problem with. The turn was interesting because now I am thinking it less likely my opponent has a queen, but if he does and he is inexperienced (I have not seen this player before) he might reveal his hand with a small re-raise and I can safely muck. When the river card hit, I am gonna lose all my chips. I have the 2nd nuts. I could easily see my opponent re-raising with Q's full of tens (maybe he had 10-10 and was slowplaying....and I just rivered him) How can he know I have AA....? When he re-raised I considered all of that for about 15 seconds and decided I couldn't simply call and I pushed. I believe that is the correct play with the 2nd nuts.

Pitcher

[11t]

I've had really bad luck with the 2nd nuts /images/graemlins/wink.gif

I dunno, I really dislike the limp preflop from the SB early, you are letting 2 people see the flop for free and if they hit you can easily go broke (as was demonstrated).

The cold call on the turn though scares me, sure he could have a ten but what is he re-raising me there on the river? The worst hand I think he has is JJ but JJ most likely bets the flop. Perhaps I'm weak tight but I just call the river re-raise but then again I don't play the 200+15s but this could be a leak.

I tend to try to minimize my losses/maximize my gains early on in tournaments.

Statistically though I think you will have the winning hand the majority of the time at my levels but I just can't see somebody besides a pretty awful player overplaying a ten or pp on the river like that.

EDIT: After more thinking I go bust on the river 95% of the time and hate myself for not raising preflop

[11t]

Yah the river queen doomed you.

[Pitcher]

Hi IIt,

This is why it is so good to post hands. Your comment below is one I should heed:

[ QUOTE ]
Statistically though I think you will have the winning hand the majority of the time at my levels but I just can't see somebody besides a pretty awful player overplaying a ten or pp on the river like that.


[/ QUOTE ]

I am flat out aggressive, bordering on overaggressive. If you look at the hand this way, perhaps I could have just called the river. It seems weak to do so, but what player indeed, would play the hand this way without the Q? The more I think about it, the more I believe I should have called instead of pushing.
Good post, thank you.

Pitcher

[pergesu]

Huh? Any ten is very likely to play this way. And a ten's a lot more likely to be out than the queen.

You said you're borderline overaggressive. If this opponent knows that, he should be willing to play back at you with far less than the queen, perhaps as far down as queens full of sevens.

I think you're going to be looking at a ten the vast majority of the time, and anyone who plays a ten like that isn't a "pretty awful player overplaying" his hand.

[adanthar]

I very often just call the raise and I am almost always right when I do. You can say he played it like a T, but he also played it like an idiot playing a Q, and we all know how many idiots there are at Party tables.

That said, you brought this on yourself. 'Rare slowplay hiding out in the SB'...yeah, being out of position is a perfect time to just call a hand you'll never fold on any street afterwards.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
I very often just call the raise and I am almost always right when I do. You can say he played it like a T, but he also played it like an idiot playing a Q, and we all know how many idiots there are at Party tables.

That said, you brought this on yourself. 'Rare slowplay hiding out in the SB'...yeah, being out of position is a perfect time to just call a hand you'll never fold on any street afterwards.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. Going broke because you played AA passively when it was the nuts and aggressively when there was a very good chance it wasn't the nuts is just asking to be stacked.

[poindexter]

You played this hand poorly on all streets. The blinds are 10-15 so you need to create a pot to fight for. What are you expecting to extract from the pot by only betting on the turn and river?

preflop: build the pot, no free flops.

Flop: checking gives him another free card and the pot is still only 40 chips.

Turn: you bet 80 chips into a 40 chip pot. What type of hand are you expecting your opponent to call with here? The answer is a good hand and judging from the preflop and flop action I would start to entertain the idea that his hand may have you beat.

River: he has already told you the turn Q did not scare him but you want to make sure he’s serious so you bet 125. He raises to 500. I guess I would have to call here also because the only card that can beat you is the 4th Q. Looking at the preflop and flop slow play the Q should become more believable. You decide to reraise here because after checking the flop and turn you have no idea if he is bluffing because you appear weak or if its because he has a monster. The reraise is a big mistake because the only hand that calls here is case Q.

try this line next time utg limps you raise to 60 utg. If he calls bet 50-60% on the flop. bet 50% on the turn Q and if he calls or raises here I check fold to any further betting. reserve the AA slowplay for levels 5-10