What do you think of Stu Ungar?

[Daliman]

Well, I just finished the new Stu Ungar Biography, which I HIGHLY recommend,(I've always been more than a bit of a Stuey fanboy..of his play, that is) and am wondering what other people might think of him overall, so here's a poll, please check all that you feel apply;

(If necessary for your thought process, figure his game w/o drugs. If you can't do that, fair enough.)

OAT=of all time

[henrikrh]

Best tourney player, best gin player, most talented. There are better overall hold'em players, but can't think of anyone more talented at card games in general.

Hellmuth comes close for best tourney player, and everyone says Ivey is really talented, I think Chip Reese even said he had the most raw talent of anyone on the circuit. So those ones are close.

[LLKOOLK1]

Without a doubt the best gin player of all time. And a great NL tourney player, possibly the greatest if he could have stayed healthy and competed at the top of his game for a longer period of time. Probably the most talented all around game/card player of all time. Reading "One of akind the story of the rise and fall of stu the kid Ungar, the worlds greatest poker player" right now. Great book so far and is a truthful account of his life, not made for TV or over exaggerated
=LL

[Zygote]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I just finished the new Stu Ungar Biography, which I HIGHLY recommend,(I've always been more than a bit of a Stuey fanboy..of his play, that is) and am wondering what other people might think of him overall, so here's a poll, please check all that you feel apply;

(If necessary for your thought process, figure his game w/o drugs. If you can't do that, fair enough.)

OAT=of all time

[/ QUOTE ]

the fact that some people rate him the best gambler OAT shows how biased these polls can be.

[LLKOOLK1]

Defintly the WORST gambler of all time
_LL

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
Defintly the WORST gambler of all time
_LL

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't call him the WORST, but he wasn't near the best.

Also, those that didn't vote best gin player just don't know

FWIW, i voted Best tourney player, best NL holdem player, Best HU player, best Gin player, best card player(another one in which i can;t see anyone else close), best WSOP performer, Best big $$$ tourney player(also, not close:3 WSOP's ME's, 3 Super bowl of poker wins), most talented.

[plaster8]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I just finished the new Stu Ungar Biography, which I HIGHLY recommend,(I've always been more than a bit of a Stuey fanboy..of his play, that is)

[/ QUOTE ]

I second the book recommendation. It's an incredibly fascinating read.

BTW, I might have voted for WORST gambler of all time, if the option was available. Now I recall reading he won $20 million to $30 million over the course of his career, and of course you have to be one of the best ever -- if not THE best ever -- to win that much.

But he died with something like $800 to his name. You've got to take some pretty bad bets to go through $30 million. Of course, I know the drugs cost him a lot of his money, too, so say he "only" plowed through $20 million in losses. That's still pretty incredible.

[kenberman]

[ QUOTE ]
Without a doubt the best gin player of all time.

[/ QUOTE ]

how many other professional gin players do you have an in-depth understanding of?

that's why polls like this are useless. 99.9% of the people on this forum can not answer any of these questions with any sort of authority.

[driller]

A very dark book. Ungar never had to face life as most of us know it because of his awesome talent. What a waste, but what a lesson and illustration.

[flo]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I just finished the new Stu Ungar Biography,

[/ QUOTE ]

Which book exactly did you read? I assume there are serveral.

[Moonsugar]

And most of us don't have to face the misery he faced from an early age. He sounds like one of the most miserable people to ever walk the earth.

Thank God for our blessings.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Without a doubt the best gin player of all time.

[/ QUOTE ]

how many other professional gin players do you have an in-depth understanding of?

that's why polls like this are useless. 99.9% of the people on this forum can not answer any of these questions with any sort of authority.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, i know that Stuey had a standing offer to play ANY gin player in the world for any amount of $$$, AND give them a 10% rebate, and none of the top players ever wanted to play him for any significant amount of $$$. He also beat Harry "Yonkie" Stein, considered one of the top players of his time, in 27 consecutive games of Hollywood gin. Crushed Danny Robison also, considered the top big-money player in Vegas, and won so many gin tourneys in such a short period of time that tourneys started barring him. He is also WIDELY regarded by many as the best gin player that there will ever be. Then there's the following, from a Cigar aficionado article on gin players;


[ QUOTE ]
Not surprisingly, the man long considered the greatest gin rummy player in the world, Stu Ungar, also won the World Series of Poker, three times. [See the March/April 1998 issue of Cigar Aficionado, page 200.] Blessed with what many claim was an authentic photographic memory, Ungar's standard gin rummy proposition was this: play him for any amount of money; when you were done you got 10 percent of your losses back. He had very few takers.

[/ QUOTE ]


Now then, what do YOU know that changes this information? I'm no gin expert, but there's nothing out there that says any different from what I have said.

And this poll isn't useless, IT'S AN OPINION POLL! IT SAYS SO RIGHT AT THE TOP! I WAS/AM INTERESTED IN OTHER PEOPLE'S OPINION'S! So quit being so elitist.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, I just finished the new Stu Ungar Biography,

[/ QUOTE ]

Which book exactly did you read? I assume there are serveral.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, there is really only one. "new" was jusr stating it just recently came out. It is called "One of a Kind : The Rise and Fall of Stuey "The Kid" Ungar, The World's Greatest Poker Player by Nolan Dalla"

[coolhandluke]

You should add
"Biggest waste of talent"
"best winner at cards, loser at life"
to the poll.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
You should add
"Biggest waste of talent"
"best winner at cards, loser at life"
to the poll.

[/ QUOTE ]
These were too obvious.

[KenProspero]

[ QUOTE ]
You should add
"Biggest waste of talent"
"best winner at cards, loser at life"
to the poll.

[/ QUOTE ]

Man, you're hard. Unless you know the inner demons he faced, I don't see how you can possibly make this kind of judgment.

Was Unger the best ever. Of course, it's impossible to say (though it makes a nice argument). I think that the best we can say is that he was an immense talent, who was beaten by life.

A truly tragic figure.

[henrikrh]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, those that didn't vote best gin player just don't know

FWIW, i voted Best tourney player, best NL holdem player, Best HU player, best Gin player,

[/ QUOTE ]

Quote of the day. You rule.

[Howard Treesong]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I just finished the new Stu Ungar Biography, which I HIGHLY recommend

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't put it down.

Some of the anecdotes are hard to believe, but there are enough of them from people I know and respect that I really do stand in awe of the man's card sense. He reportedly was able to identify every card in an opponent's gin hand after something like five draws. And the call he made on Mansour in a big freezeout with nine-high was stunning. His tourney record, though against small fields, was solid.

Gin is a skill game, requiring the ability to make accurate conclusions from incomplete information; he rarely ever lost, while playing against the best players in the world. And he didn't just beat people at it; he crushed them.

At the same time, he was tremendously [censored]-up guy. He had no ability to fit into the real world. He torched through tens of millions of dollars betting sports, doing cocaine, and buying hookers. There's a tragic anecdote about Stuey being so desperate for a fix that he stole two one-dollar chips off of the brush stand at the Horseshoe.

I never met the man. I saw him a few times at the Bike in the early nineties.

It's a worthwhile read.

[flo]

Thanks, i'll give it a shot.