Line check please. [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

Colombo

06-29-2005, 12:17 AM

A little after first break in 25,000 guaranteed. Villian has been agressively raising my blind the past 2 orbits, and thats my only read.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t7625)
Hero (t14370)
BB (t12570)
UTG (t16680)
UTG+1 (t4550)
MP1 (t11475)
MP2 (t6990)
CO (t6000)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
5 folds, Button raises to t600, Hero calls t500, 1 fold.

Flop: (t1275) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets t1100, Hero calls t1100.

Turn: (t3475) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets t1400, Hero raises to t2800, Button calls t1400.

River: (t9075) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t3000, Button raises to t3100, Hero calls t100.

Final Pot: t15275

you guys like? should i be raising this flop or is check/call fine. how about preflop?

Brad F.

06-29-2005, 11:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
A little after first break in 25,000 guaranteed. Villian has been agressively raising my blind the past 2 orbits, and thats my only read.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t7625)
Hero (t14370)
BB (t12570)
UTG (t16680)
UTG+1 (t4550)
MP1 (t11475)
MP2 (t6990)
CO (t6000)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
5 folds, Button raises to t600, Hero calls t500, 1 fold.

Flop: (t1275) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets t1100, Hero calls t1100.

Turn: (t3475) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets t1400, Hero raises to t2800, Button calls t1400.

River: (t9075) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t3000, Button raises to t3100, Hero calls t100.

Final Pot: t15275

you guys like? should i be raising this flop or is check/call fine. how about preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, I actually like your line a lot. I really don't see what you're behind here for most of the hand. I like the smooth call on the flop because there is no doubt that your hand is good, and it might induce a repop on the turn from the aggressive player.

You got the repop, and you reraised him. However, I would reraise him a litle bit more here instead of a min-raise. Maybe all-in. I just feel at this point there are draws, and the pot is large as it is, I'd like to take down the 5000 and avoid possibly letting the villian hit his outs.

But at the same time, I don't see how that 7 of clubs really helped him, it's not that scary, staying in extract mode works fine here as well.

Overall I think you played it quite well. If the aggro villian checked on the flop i might suspect a set, but his flop bet really smelled of a steal attempt more than anything IMO.

I have this strange feeling that he had 8-8, but I think your line seems about right.

Brad

Sam T.

06-29-2005, 11:23 AM

Unless he's on a set the Button looks rather like a donkey:
-Overbet the flop
-Underbetting the turn.
-Calling the turn raise when you min-raise to juice the pot
-Going in on the river with anything less than a trips.

Anyway, to your play:
- I don't mind the call pre-flop, but a raise would work as well.
-Given his aggression, the check on the flop seems good. I'd probably raise it up here, but I'm trying to slow down and extract more chips when I'm way ahead (as you seem to be).
-I'd probably go ahead and put him all in on the turn, but if you think you can get him all-in on the intallment plan, the min-raise is good. It certainly ties him to the pot.
-I might bet less on the river. He'd have to call t1000 if he has any kind of hand, and would probably come over the top. If you put him all in like this, he may come to his senses and fold a weak ace. (Obviously not, but you get my point.)

Nice line. Hope he wasn't on 88.

Sam

HeroInBlack

06-29-2005, 11:29 AM

Personally, I like to respond to blind stealers with a stout reraise preflop rather than by calling, but I can see calling, too.

I don't mind the flop call, either.

When he called your raise on the turn, I would get a little worried, but not too bad.

Basically, I'd be willing to go to the felt with your two pair here. If I lose, oh well.

Brad F.

06-29-2005, 11:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]

When he called your raise on the turn, I would get a little worried, but not too bad.

Basically, I'd be willing to go to the felt with your two pair here. If I lose, oh well.

[/ QUOTE ]

What would you be afraid of on the turn? 77?

I guess if you look at his wierd underbet on the turn two sevens could work, but I really am not scared of his call of a min-raise.

Brad

HeroInBlack

06-29-2005, 12:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What would you be afraid of on the turn? 77?

[/ QUOTE ]

More likely TT or 22, but like I said, not very afraid. I'm not folding.

Brad F.

06-29-2005, 02:29 PM

Villian is a total donk if he bets the pot on a A-10-2 rainbow flop with a set of 2s or 10s.

Brad

Sam T.

06-29-2005, 03:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villian is a total donk.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

Edited your post.

Actually the only hand that would excuse villain's play is A2, and even then he played it very sloppily.

Sam

locutus2002

06-29-2005, 03:20 PM

I like the way villain played it if he has TT. Other than that I think he overbet the flop on such a coordinated board, and should have checked behind at the turn if he only had top pr.

Brad F.

06-29-2005, 03:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I like the way villain played it if he has TT. Other than that I think he overbet the flop on such a coordinated board, and should have checked behind at the turn if he only had top pr.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, playing tens like that is bad unless you absolutely know that your opposition will pay you off. By the sound of the villian, I don't think he's that bright.

Brad

autobet

06-29-2005, 03:44 PM

your slowplay is good here. Since it is a buttom raise, he is most likely drawing dead or at least slim. You have a good chance to get him to bet the turn with little chance.

I would raise at least a little more than the min, but that's my preference.

Nice hand.

locutus2002

06-29-2005, 04:00 PM

TT or 22 takes a big swing ATF looking for an ace and connects. I like the way villain played it if he has these hands.

A2,A7 villain has to be concerned about counterfeiting, and has to bet the turn. If villain has these hands then I think he is guilty of not excercising some pot control starting with the flop bet.

AceTen I think villain overbet the flop.

If villain has anything else, I don't care for the way he played it.

Colombo

06-29-2005, 04:13 PM

Anyway, villian shows 77 and i lose the pot.

But, here is my major question.

Instead of check/calling on the flop, should i be check/raising?

The thing is, by check/calling there is no draw for me to represent, so the other guy should probably think that I'm slowplaying something.

The other thing is, if i check/call, and he has a weak hand, like 77 or a bluff, he will shut down on the turn and river, so check raising and making him fold really makes no difference in my profit, it just gives me an oppurtunity to lose the pot.

Finally, if he has Ax he will probably call my check raise and I will extract as much money as I would with check/calling.

Thoughts?

Brad F.

06-29-2005, 04:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
TT or 22 takes a big swing ATF looking for an ace and connects. I like the way villain played it if he has these hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

But do you like the way he played it if he swings and misses?

I definitely see the argument here, but with the read that our hero has, I don't see the villian getting this clever with a set on the flop.

Brad

WakeHeel

06-29-2005, 04:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
IMO, playing tens like that is bad unless you absolutely know that your opposition will pay you off. By the sound of the villian, I don't think he's that bright.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will play a set like this if I've been betting at a lot of flops. It looks suspicious to check a pot when you've been making a lot of continuation bets. So, I fire and hope I get played back at. If my opponent folds...so be it.

Rduke55

06-29-2005, 04:39 PM

I think you were fine. He may have had a big A and continued paying you off. Which is more likely than him hitting a set. And with what he did have even if he misses his set on the turn he may fire another barrel.
If you checkraise the hand is over on the flop. Let him try to give you more money when you are ahead. You have top two heads up against a raiser. Don't secondguess this IMO. He hit his 2 outer. You just didn't hit your 4 out redraw. This is just a bad beat, not bad playing.
A completely different situation where you see this same thinking: It's like the person who gets all-in PF with KK vs. A7. River A. Of course the 1st thing through their mind is they should of stop-n-goed and he would of never called the flop bet. While they're often correct that the person would not have called I think that they're still correct to get all-in there PF. It was still the right play.

I'm rambling...

Brad F.

06-29-2005, 04:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, villian shows 77 and i lose the pot.

But, here is my major question.

Instead of check/calling on the flop, should i be check/raising?

The thing is, by check/calling there is no draw for me to represent, so the other guy should probably think that I'm slowplaying something.

The other thing is, if i check/call, and he has a weak hand, like 77 or a bluff, he will shut down on the turn and river, so check raising and making him fold really makes no difference in my profit, it just gives me an oppurtunity to lose the pot.

Finally, if he has Ax he will probably call my check raise and I will extract as much money as I would with check/calling.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Tough beat, but I still think you played the hand about perfectly.

We read correctly that he was on a steal PF. You have two pair, so even if he's semibluffing with one pair (the two or ten in this case) his outs are all but forfeited. So a call in this situation is fine. He probably calls a minraise with this semibluff.

If he does have a underpocketpair, he has two outs against you. I'd think most players fold to a flop raise here, but I'm not sure about this villian. Either way, you are way ahead of him here. Villian having an underpair, however, means that you won't extract much more from him unless he is super-agressive. So here you have to weigh whether a smooth-call will induce a repop or not. If not, then I raise on the flop here and be done with the hand.

If he has an ace, he pays you off. He's already shown that right? So smooth calling here is perfect if he has an ace.

So evaluating the different holdings, I think the smoothcall is your best option. He either:

1) Has a worse two pair and will pay you off at a latter time. He has 2 outs to beat you.
2) Is semibluffing with one pair, and will pay you off if he hits a forfeited out, or might repop if you smooth call. He has 0-2 outs to beat you.
3) Has an underpair, possibly repoping on the turn, possible not giving you any more, and possibly folding to a flop reraise. Could do a lot of different things with an underpocketpair.
4) Could have absolutely nothing and fold to a flop reraise or a turn bet.

With all options considered here, I think smooth calling on the most profitable decision here.

Brad