Ethics (sometimes I wish I had none)

[DanS]

This happened a few months ago at Bay 101, and initially I decided not to post it cuz I thought/knew I did the right thing. It's been killing me recently though.

Dream 6-12 at Bay 101. Dealer just moved from Montana, one of the most competent I've ever seen. I open-raise with queens, marginal playing props 3-bets 10s, crappy SB calls 3 cold with 75s, I cap. Dealer deals the flop, and just as he does, I realize he didn't see my cap. I start to speak up when i realize this, right as he's dealing the flop. I had already squeezed out a syllable or two, but the flop was out: Q /forums/images/icons/heart.gif T /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 8 /forums/images/icons/club.gif . D'ohh/arrggh. To late to turn back. I don't care how these monkeys perceive me (in terms of integrity), but I gotta be true to myself. I let the dealer know that I had capped it.

Long story short, new flop, I lose $75 or so instead of winning $200+. The dealer was apologetic (the dumbfuck in the SB asked to see my hand after he had won), but in a zenlike state, I let him know it was cool, these things happen, etc, etc.

What really pissed me off is that gamble gamble Asian guy and his three (yeah, three) sweaters in the 8 seat (I was 9, dumbass was 7) was like "Why you do dat? Why you same something?" over and over. I was like "Cuz unlike you I've got some fuckin integrity." I really wasn't mad at the dealer, but I did play a little less than optimally after that.

Dan

[brad]

when the flop is burned and turned is it shuffled back in?

[DanS]

Yeah, they shuffled the flop back in and didn't have a burn (IIRC).

Dan

[Dynasty]

I'm not sure it would be unethical if you didn't force your opponents to put in the extra small pre-flop bet from your cap (and force a new flop to be dealt). I don't think it would be wrong to let them keep that extra bet and allow the "true" flop to stay on the board.

An unethical situation would be if you had 99 and didn't call your opponent's raise (saving yourself 1 small bet) and then check-folded on an A,Q,x flop.

[DanS]

Hi Dynasty,
This was the only grey area for me. It was, ethics aside, obviously worth giving up that $6 because the hand had such a huge expectation (especially given the flop). Maybe we can get some debate on if not saying anything would have been shady.

Dan

[ninthyaga]

Also at Bay 101: 15-30. Flopped a set of nines while another player flopped an overset. Lots of action w/several other players in. Rivered another nine for quads, but the card was dealt before one player had a chance to act. Reshuffled and lost the hand. Dealer apologized about 10 times over the course of the night =P Would have loved that pot... Guess I had the worst of it anyways.

[DanS]

Does anyone agree with Dynasty that not saying anything about the fourth bet would be reasonable (before and/or after the flop?)

Dan

[StoneAge]

That's really an interesting question. My initial reaction is to agree with Dynasty's answer. One thing to consider though is in this situation you have the 'option' of saying something if the flop comes AKx and keeping your mouth shut if it comes Qxx. I think I would be willing to lay my opponents 4:3 if I could always have the option (without their knowledge) of saying "I don't like that flop, I'd like another one. So it does seem like you do have an unfair advantage if you choose after seeing the flop.

[Bob T.]

Dan,

I think you did the right thing. The action wasn't complete, and you corrected it. I think that you are going to take a chance of looking like an angle shooter, when you have a bet out before your turn (your cap bet) and you shouldn't have acted yet, and then you turn over top set.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[Jim Easton]

Like he said, that was the "true" flop. If you go on the "true flop" theory, you also don't point it out if you don't like the flop.