just making sure we all agree...

[Lunar Tweak]

that i played this hand like a giant pussy. a little background info: online loose game w/ couple of rather agressive players.

A /forums/images/icons/heart.gif A /forums/images/icons/spade.gif in EP, 2 limpers to me and i obviously raise. folded to CO (not one of the hyper-agresssors) who 3 bets, SB calls BB caps. rest call for a behemoth of a pot.

6 players 24 small bets.

a somewhat favorable flop of K 8 4 rainbow

BB leads, all call to CO who raises, everyone calls. SB folds.

i put SB on Aces, maybe AK or QQ. suppose he could have KK and waiting for checkraise. i just praying CO doesn't have KK, but he maybe also have AK. so i either way ahead or way behind. so i puss out and go into check call mode.

5 to turn for 17 Big BEts

turn brings a 5, making 2 flush in clubs.

since this is online, SB ends up timing out and is forced to fold. so now an EP comes out firing. othe EP folds, and CO raises again. we both call.

3 to river 23 big bets

river is J, no flush possible

checks through. EP had K 7s, and CO told me he had AK of clubs.

so i guess if i played this right, tell me why. otherwise give me a lashing for playing like a pansy calling station.

thx

[Ed Miller]

Raising the flop bet or (because the pot is so large) flat calling the flop and waiting until the turn to raise are both viable options. Putting CO on KK just because he raised the flop is silly.

[Ulysses]

I definitely agree with you and you deserve many lashes.

"way ahead or way behind" is something to think about when there's a good chance you lose money by betting either way - a bluff or weak hand that may have kept on coming might fold and a better hand will raise.

In this situation with the huge pot, nobody is going anywhere if they have a chance. And any King loves this flop. I'll 3-bet the flop and hope it gets capped. Since you didn't do that, I'd 3-bet the turn. If CO 4-bets, I'll check-call the river w/ a lot of players. Given that you didn't re-raise the turn, I'll bet this river every time.

Post-flop you never did a thing to indicate you have a really strong hand. And pre-flop, you just put in the first of 3 raises. Why should anyone think you had the best hand? Tell them you have a big hand and see if anyone tells you they have a bigger one!

If you can't push Aces hard on a rainbow K-8-4-5-J board, I don't know when you can!

[bad beetz]

with this much money in the pot before the flop, you need to do what you can to put people to decisions for bad odds.

you need to be check-raising or betting, going into check/call mode is the worst possible thing you could do, you need to be betting/raising, doing what it takes to win that big ass pot.

This board is not at all scary and you are seeing monsters under the bed by instantly thinking of KK.

[Jim Easton]

a somewhat favorable flop of K 8 4 rainbow

I'd say this is more than somewhat favorable. It is an excellent flop for AA - no draws other than gutshots with 76 or 65 (I had KK lose to 65o that called 2 cold and flopped a straight just this morning), but they'll have to show it to you. You will get lots of action from anyone with a king.

i put (BB?) on Aces,

Why? You had 2 aces, so AA isn't a likely hand for him. AA vs. AA does happen, but it is rare. I think your AK or QQ read is probably better, but I think AK is more likely (pretending I don't know what he really had).

BB leads, all call to CO who raises,

A case can be made for waiting to raise the turn (See the "When the Pot Gets Big" sections of TOP and HFAP, when calling 2 big bets cold might knock some people out. When CO raises, I would lean toward 3 betting the flop - call then raise would look like a big hand and might knock some people out.

just praying CO doesn't have KK

Most players would not raise here with KK, the board is non-threatening and they have a powerhouse. Most would wait for the turn to collect some extra BB's.

so now an EP comes out firing.

You need to raise here. If CO 3-bets, cap it.

river is J, no flush possible

KJ might be happy here, but you need to bet.

EP had K 7s, and CO told me he had AK of clubs.

You will get better analysis if you post the results in a separate post (I made the same mistake on my first post).

I agree with your opinion of your play. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[bernie]

why are you putting them on better hands instantly?

id have waited for the turn at first, just calling the initial bet, but the BB just calls the flop raise.. im likely to 3 bet here. since he may check the turn and you wont get the double bet raise to the players behind you...

you can also jsut call, and bet out on the turn if checked to...or raise if bet into..

why are you putting the (i assume you meant) BB on aces? is he that tight in his raise standards? you didnt mention if he was one of the 'hyper aggrs'...

putting some pressure on, and having some call, you couldve bet the river also....you never really tested your hand...

with this board, you went into check-call too early and missed some bets...and this could come back around to haunt you later in the session if theyre able to slow you down, betting that easily...

not a game for the timid...

b

[bernie]

"so now an EP comes out firing.

You need to raise here. If CO 3-bets, cap it"

im not sure id be capping a CO player who 'isnt' one of the hyper aggressives(refer to original posts description)....he usually has at least 2 pair here, most likely a set. to cap this type of player on the turn can be throwing chips away

there are players who if they played like this, id fold the flop. but id have to have a good read....same as if a str8 forward player is 3 or 4 betting this turn....

b

[Jim Easton]

he usually has at least 2 pair here, most likely a set.

On the turn, the board is K 8 4 5. The CO 3-bet preflop and isn't one of the hyper-aggressives. What possible hand could a reasonable player 3-bet preflop that would make 2 pair on this board? There is no way he has 2 pair. That leaves the sets. Not likely to 3 bet 44, not likely to 3 bet 55, or take it to the turn, let alone raise the flop. Not likely to 3-bet 88. KK is certainly possible, but a raise here is still likely to be AK that he believes is still good for at least a split with our hero. The fact he raised that flop really tells me AK rather than KK. I don't think many people would raise KK on that flop, fearing a check to the raiser on the turn. KK wants to be bet into on the turn so he can get in an expensive raise.

same as if a str8 forward player is 3 or 4 betting this turn....

If CO had merely called the flop, then 3-bet the turn, I would agree.

If our hero had raised the flop and CO called it cold. BB leads again and our hero raises again, if CO now 3-bets, I think you can put him on KK with nearly 100% confidence in your read.

To me, raising this flop makes AK far more likely than KK. If he raises me when I bet the river, I would certainly reevaluate and just call, but I think our hero has every reason to believe his hand is good on the turn.