A set of 2s

[Scuba Chuck]

This HH is from memory. HH not from Party. Starting stacks are 1000. This is the second hand.

I'm dealt 22 in the BB. Blinds are 5/10.

UTG raises to 25
MP1 calls
Hero calls

Flop (t80) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Hero checks (intending to check raise), UTG bets t25, MP1 raises to t50, Hero raises to t200, UTG bets allin, MP1 calls, Hero????

This is a $30+3.

[Sabrazack]

This is a icky sticky situation. But i think the chances they have overpair/twopair/pair+flushdraw make this a call anyway.

[gumpzilla]

A bit sticky. The MP minraise on the flop is somewhat troubling, as is UTG's small bet followed by a push over the top. It's certainly possible that you're up against a bigger set, but I think it's also quite likely that you're up against A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and QQ. I don't think I fold this here, but I think it's probably pretty close.

[spentrent]

Hero calls and sees villains with TT-AA|AT|KT.

So you might see a bigger set but you'll probably see second-hand-of-the-game insanity much more often. I don't think a table full of 10 people at the 33s is immune to donkery this early.

[Phil Van Sexton]

I can't imagine folding a set with no reads, and no str8 or flush possible.

[Scuba Chuck]

I was guessing someone had JJ-AA and I was guessing that MP1 was on a flush draw (just instincts - no reads).

It was UTG that I wasn't sure on. A small raise, followed by a small bet on the flop looks like an overpair, or another made set. My feeling is that I have to call this. I will be paid off often enough. I've just never calculated the odds on something like this (reason for my post) being up against an overpair, and the flush draw.

Just for fun, I ran the following through poker stove.
BTW MP1 had Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

AA
Qd8d
22

I'm a 67% favorite to win the hand.

If UTG has a higher set, well..

I've got a 4% chance of taking the pot.

[SuitedSixes]

When you called a raise with 22, you got the monster that you wanted. If you are not going to treat it like the monster that you think it is, then you should have folded pre-flop.

[PrayingMantis]

Scuba,

I don't quite understand the posters that replied by saying it's a sticky/tricky/icky whatever spot. It's a very easy call. If it's sticky in the sense that you sometimes run into a higher set here, well, any situation in poker is sticky by this definition.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
When you called a raise with 22, you got the monster that you wanted. If you are not going to treat it like the monster that you think it is, then you should have folded pre-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

The flop action is at least mildly intimidating if you give your opponents any credit whatsoever. You can't ignore it.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
When you called a raise with 22, you got the monster that you wanted. If you are not going to treat it like the monster that you think it is, then you should have folded pre-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, blanket statements like these are bad, for the following reason: while this is an autocall on a T72 board with 2 suits, it's much closer to a fold when the board is T52 rainbow and an autofold when that T52 board had 3 people in.

Anyway, call, not remotely close in wildest dreams, etc.

[zambonidrivr]

i don't see how you lay this down. instead of dreading the call, i am thinking its a dream come true. could be up against an overpair,.. jacks perhaps, 2 pair.... anything. get your money in boy. if you lay this down, you are in the wrong game

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
The flop action is at least mildly intimidating if you give your opponents any credit whatsoever.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you generally give your opponents in a random $30 SNG enough credit that you actually FOLD this, you are really helping their ROI when they play against you.

Also, I think "intimidating" is a very very big word for this little on-line SNG spot... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't see how you lay this down. instead of dreading the call, i am thinking its a dream come true. could be up against an overpair,.. jacks perhaps, 2 pair.... anything. get your money in boy. if you lay this down, you are in the wrong game


[/ QUOTE ]

Are you talking to me? Please notice who you're replyig to.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
Scuba,

I don't quite understand the posters that replied by saying it's a sticky/tricky/icky whatever spot. It's a very easy call. If it's sticky in the sense that you sometimes run into a higher set here, well, any situation in poker is sticky by this definition.

[/ QUOTE ]

PM, this was precisely my thoughts. In otherwords, you can never tell if you're up against an overpair or a donk (or ATd).

Results:
UTG had TT, and I'm out in two hands. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I thought I played this hand correct, I just wanted to see. Thanks for the thoughts guys.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

If you generally give your opponents in a random $30 SNG enough credit that you actually FOLD this, you are really helping their ROI when they play against you.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my original post, I also pointed out that this will frequently be overpairs and AT diamond type hands, and that I would call. So no, I don't fold here. That doesn't mean that I don't think that I will be in a set over set situation here substantially more often than I expect to be when I flop bottom set and the action is quieter.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]


OK, blanket statements like these are bad, for the following reason: while this is an autocall on a T72 board with 2 suits, it's much closer to a fold when the board is T52 rainbow and an autofold when that T52 board had 3 people in.

Anyway, call, not remotely close in wildest dreams, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you advocate a fold here if the board is T52 rainbow? I guess I don't see your point.

[fluorescenthippo]

one has QQ+, other has AT. i posted a hand like this a few weeks ago but there were 3 people all in before i could act. this is an easy call however

[djj6835]

[ QUOTE ]
The flop action is at least mildly intimidating if you give your opponents any credit whatsoever. You can't ignore it.


[/ QUOTE ]
In a 30+3 I think you can ignore it. I couldn't have my chips in the pot fast enough against your typical opponent.

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
That doesn't mean that I don't think that I will be in a set over set situation here substantially more often than I expect to be when I flop bottom set and the action is quieter.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, of course. But that doesn't mean calling here isn't still significantly +EV (sorry, double negative). Notice also the simple fact that when you flop a set and get such action, you actually make much much more than when you flop it and the action is "quiter" as you say. In this sense, you are actually "luckier" in our scenario here, and so you should be even happier about running into it.

[Jason Strasser]

Here's a guideline: don't fold sets.

Cool beans, not really sure what you all are talking about here.

-Jason

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]

Cool beans, not really sure what you all are talking about here.


[/ QUOTE ]

It's a discussion about very very tricky situations in which you flop sets./images/graemlins/grin.gif

I think you have a lot to learn here Jason, you weak tight fish.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

I think you call, maybe push 1st given the scary board (I think you chose to raise t$200). You're getting 2:1 on your money and you have the 3rd best hand at the moment. I don't play $33's but I suspect that it is very likely that you're up against top pair, over pair, or flush draw all of which you're a favorite to win. If you run into a higher set that sucks, but you probably win more than you lose in this situation.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

It's a discussion about very very tricky situations in which you flop sets./images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we are all aware of the rule of thumb that you should basically never fold a set. (I'm glad I proofread, I had accidentally written that you should basically never flop a set, which is a poor rule of thumb indeed) However, discussing rules of thumb can get pretty boring. I like trying to think about when you might break those rules. This is not such an instance, as is unanimously agreed, but that doesn't mean it's not worth thinking about.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't imagine folding a set with no reads, and no str8 or flush possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah...after I was done cleaning up the mess in my pants and high fiving my imaginary friends, I'd call in your situation.

Yugoslav