why are the pros cleaning up so much?

[housenuts]

the pros are dominating this years wsop. there's been so many big name winners - chan, seidel, seif, cunningham, arieh, todd brunson, cloutier, greenstein...

what is going on? how are they able to fight through these huge fields? i thought everyone said it wouldn't happen like this and it would just be random amateurs taking the bracelets home. what have the pros figured out?

[Sykes]

Because amateurs have no clue how to play post flop?

[plaid]

nice ass

[Josh W]

I don't think 'pros' are doing any better this year than in past years. It's just that there are many more 'household' names this year.

Last year guys like Ram Vaswani, Gavin Smith, David Williams, Josh Arieh, The Grinder, Scott Fischman, etc were 'no name' players. Now they are "pros".

Nobody is losing there "name" or "pro" status. But lots are gaining such status. As the fields grow, the number of recognizable names grows as well.

Makes perfect sense.

Josh

[henrikrh]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think 'pros' are doing any better this year than in past years. It's just that there are many more 'household' names this year.

Last year guys like Ram Vaswani, Gavin Smith, David Williams, Josh Arieh, The Grinder, Scott Fischman, etc were 'no name' players. Now they are "pros"

Nobody is losing there "name" or "pro" status. But lots are gaining such status. As the fields grow, the number of recognizable names grows as well.

Makes perfect sense.

Josh

[/ QUOTE ]

The people winning are not pros who became famous during the poker boom we are experienceing, Chan, Greenstein, Cunningham, Seif, these are real pros. And besides, Ram Vaswani, Josh Arieh, The Grinder and Fischman are pro, they rely solely on poker for income, that's what a pro is.

Pro's are killing the world series. I think it's because they simply outplay the non-pros by alot more than people expected, and they are more accustomed to the endurance and stamina requirements of a 2 day event, which most people underestimate.

[sekrah]

I'm sure the Pro's are adjusting there game and getting better.

They are learning new ways to adapt and beat the new players at the table.

There will always be waves of new theory's and styles of play that catch on like fads.. Give the Pro's enough time and they will evolve and crush the new theories.

It's why guys like Doyle Brunson and TJ Cloutier still reach final tables year after year after year..


I'm glad to see the resurgence of Johnny Chan.. He seemed to have gotten crushed by the "New Game" over the last few years and had trouble adapting..

It appears that he has a solved the fish puzzle and is on the top of his game, (which is good for Poker!)

I love seeing these Pro's dominate the "Newbies" again.. It gives the game alot more respect and integrity, and truly acknowledges it as a "Skill Game!"

[David04]

[ QUOTE ]
They are learning new ways to adapt and beat the new players at the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

[grandgnu]

Are you kidding me? It's because the majority of players are easy to read. If I'm a pro with excellent player-reading skills, and I hold 8/9 suited and see a flop and don't hit anything, but I know YOU didn't hit anything, I can push you off and build my stack easily.

It is unreal how strong a skill player-reading is in NL Hold 'Em tournaments, it's even more important (in my opinion) than math/odds.

[Ulysses]

I haven't looked, but I imagine a fair number of these tourneys still contain a rather large percentage of pros. Most of the non-pros I know are playing one or two events, usually LHE or NLHE medium-non-rebuy events.

[benneh]

they've been practicing on stars hubble no limit hold em freeroll.

[Paluka]

The "pros" are cleaning up because there are like 200 players who are considered to be a pro. When a tourney has 600 entries, 200 of which are full time poker players, it is pretty clear that one of these pros is usually going to win.

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
they've been practicing on stars hubble no limit hold em freeroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the correct answer.

[AaronO]

Are you sure it's not pokerstars.net? I hear A LOT of pros go there to practice...

[Mike Cuneo]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you sure it's not pokerstars.net? I hear A LOT of pros go there to practice...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I've seen Barry Greenstein on there he usually does OK. Most people leave the table when Hellmuth sits though.

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
the pros are dominating this years wsop. there's been so many big name winners - chan, seidel, seif, cunningham, arieh, todd brunson, cloutier, greenstein...

what is going on? how are they able to fight through these huge fields? i thought everyone said it wouldn't happen like this and it would just be random amateurs taking the bracelets home. what have the pros figured out?

[/ QUOTE ]

Its the huge fields of dead money. Everybody talks about the negative aspect of that, but nobody's looked at the flip side of this. Sure, such large fields mean that there are plenty of mine fields that can take you out. It means lots of wild, unpredicable play. It means lots of unbluffable players.

But it also mean a lot of oportunities to get lots of money into the pot with an edge, sometimes with a really big edge. This means that while they may run into plenty of people who will gamboool it up and may get lucky and knock them out, the top players also have serious oportunities to acquire large amounts of chips. And in tournament play, large stacks equate to power and longevity.



--Zetack

[RicktheRuler]

[ QUOTE ]
chan, seidel, seif, cunningham, arieh, todd brunson, cloutier, greenstein...


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, why are the best players in the world doing well? Strange that they would be able to wade through a bunch of idiots in a tournament every now and then.

This question sucks.

[A-Baum]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
chan, seidel, seif, cunningham, arieh, todd brunson, cloutier, greenstein...


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, why are the best players in the world doing well? Strange that they would be able to wade through a bunch of idiots in a tournament every now and then.

This question sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

So does your attitude.

[Jurollo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
chan, seidel, seif, cunningham, arieh, todd brunson, cloutier, greenstein...


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, why are the best players in the world doing well? Strange that they would be able to wade through a bunch of idiots in a tournament every now and then.

This question sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

So does your attitude.

[/ QUOTE ]

With this as his avatar did you expect him to be cuddly and nice?

http://www.hankthedwarf.com/images/photos/album/alb9.jpg

[Toro]

Many people predicted after the 2004 WSOP that the pros would adjust their collective games and do much better in 2005.

[Beavis68]

The pros lost so much last year that the "Fairness Policy" has shifted back into their favor.

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
The pros lost so much last year that the "Fairness Policy" has shifted back into their favor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that like the Cashout Curse /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Matt Flynn]

I played the 5K pot limit event. There were only 239 entrants. Sat at two tables and didn't know anyone at either of them. There were two players I kept my eyes on. The rest were weaker. So both apsects were in effect: the ratio of pro to amateur was high, and the amateurs weren't very good.

Matt

[nath]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
chan, seidel, seif, cunningham, arieh, todd brunson, cloutier, greenstein...


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, why are the best players in the world doing well? Strange that they would be able to wade through a bunch of idiots in a tournament every now and then.

This question sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

So does your attitude.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, he's got a valid point. I mean... why do pros do better than amateurs at anything?

[Army Eye]

The pros did fine at the WSOP last year. There were a few no-name winners, Drehobl, Vogl, Sica... you could argue Gavin Griffin to be in that group.. but almost all the other events were won by pros. I think there are actually more no-names winning bracelets this year, though of course there are also more events total.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
I played the 5K pot limit event. There were only 239 entrants. Sat at two tables and didn't know anyone at either of them. There were two players I kept my eyes on. The rest were weaker. So both apsects were in effect: the ratio of pro to amateur was high, and the amateurs weren't very good.

Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

HAHAHAHHA YOU DIDN'T EVEN MAKE THE MONEY FISH HAHHAHAHAHAHA

[Cleveland Guy]

[ QUOTE ]
the pros are dominating this years wsop. there's been so many big name winners - chan, seidel, seif, cunningham, arieh, todd brunson, cloutier, greenstein...

what is going on? how are they able to fight through these huge fields? i thought everyone said it wouldn't happen like this and it would just be random amateurs taking the bracelets home. what have the pros figured out?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's cause they moved it to the Rio.

Live poker is rigged - they have stacked the deck with extra 8s and 6s - and only told the pros.

[JohnG]

[ QUOTE ]
the pros are dominating this years wsop. there's been so many big name winners - chan, seidel, seif, cunningham, arieh, todd brunson, cloutier, greenstein...

what is going on? how are they able to fight through these huge fields?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's an awful lot of big name players. You could probably think of twenty names off the top of your head that have done nothing so far.

[Scooterdoo]

It's certainly difficult for any one pro to dominate, but you're talking about a pool of pros. There are probably close to 100 pros that you would recognize as pros who are playing in these events. Once you get past the holdem events and the buy-in get over $2.5k the fields shrink considerably so the "pros" do make up a considerable percentage. Also, some of the events that you named are non-holdem games where the pros are 50% of the field, or if not 50% a pretty significant portion.