An interesting hand

[Jonathan]

Hi all,

Could you please analyze my play in the following hand?
MP1 is an aggressive player who has been playing alot of pots.
I'll give my thoughts later.

Thanks,
Jonathan
__________________________________________________ ________
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

CO (t1060)
Hero (t955)
SB (t3310)
BB (t400)
UTG (t760)
MP1 (t955)
MP2 (t560)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls t30, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t125</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls t95.

Flop: (t295) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t150</font>, MP1 calls t150.

Turn: (t595) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, Hero checks.

River: (t595) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 bets [t680] all-in, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t595

[Benholio]

Fold preflop.

Since you didn't fold preflop, I would bet closer to the size of the pot on the flop, since the board is full of draws. Checking the turn and folding the river are both fine, though there is a decent chance you are ahead on the river.

[Nick M]

fold preflop on the button with AJ behind 1 limper????? That is tight as a crab's ass....man i don't know about fold.

[Nick M]

I think the raise is too big but I like raising on pokerstars with more chips. Here it is probably correct to just call or make it like 75 and try to knock out the blinds and take it heads up with the limper.

Seeing as you raised to 125 and the pot is now 295, betting 150 is a very bad bet. You need to bet more of the pot here. Once he calls that small flop bet and you see the 10, I don't completely mind the play. The board is pretty scary. 2 pair happens a lot on this board and abviously it's 4 to the straight.

I will say this though. That river push after your turn check, makes me think he has a pair and a busted flush draw. Or just a plain old busted flush draw. If YOU had a 9 wouldn't you value bet the river???

[Jonathan]

[ QUOTE ]

__________________________________________________ ________
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

CO (t1060)
Hero (t955)
SB (t3310)
BB (t400)
UTG (t760)
MP1 (t955)
MP2 (t560)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls t30, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t125</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls t95.

Flop: (t295) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t150</font>, MP1 calls t150.

Turn: (t595) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, Hero checks.

River: (t595) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 bets [t680] all-in, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t595

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the responses.

First, preflop. You are in perfect position with one limper and the blinds.
And a hand which is not too bad. I think a raise of 3 to 5BB is in order, and will often take the pot down right then and there.
If not, you still have a decent hand to play.

On the flop, I flop top pair top kicker, so when the
opener checks, of course I will make a continuation bet.
I could bet more, say 2/3 of the pot, but in my experience
1/2 pot usually does the job.

Once I get called, its the turn that I think is interesting.
I think I must bet here. Checking is just an invitation to
have the pot taken away from me on the river, which is what
happened. Since 1/2 to 2/3 pot size bet on the turn is
about half my remaining stack, I should probably just go
all in. I really doubt that he was calling my flop bet
with 9, so its very unlikely he has a straight. More likely
he was on a flush draw, or had a jack himself. He checks
the turn, plannning to fold to my bet. But when I give
him an engraved invitation to steal from me on the river,
he gratefully accepts it.

Suerte,
Jonathan

[kyro]

I hate the raise PF. You said he was an aggressive player. Well he just out-aggressived you postflop and you make the pot much larger than it needs to be by raising PF. I just call here.

[Jonathan]

[ QUOTE ]
I hate the raise PF. You said he was an aggressive player. Well he just out-aggressived you postflop and you make the pot much larger than it needs to be by raising PF. I just call here.

[/ QUOTE ]

That he "out-aggressived" me post flop is not due to the
preflop raise, but rather my failure to bet the turn. If
you just call preflop then:
1) you miss an opportunity to take down the pot right there,
2) you get no information about the opponents holdings.

Suppose you call, small blind completes, BB checks. Flop
comes and its all checked around to you. Now what is your plan? Are you going to check the flop too?


please explain.

Suerte,
Jonathan

[lastchance]

Well, it saves you chips. TPTK just isn't that good on PP, and you can save a lot of chips by just limping preflop here and letting position do a lot of your work. Obviously, if you limp and it's checked to you with TPTK, you have to bet, probably full-pot.

Also, getting any information preflop by raising simply doesn't work at the $22's.

[adanthar]

Here is how I play it, which is not necessarily the best or even a correct way to play it at the 22's:

Limp preflop. Bet ~200 on the flop. Check the turn. Call that river.

[sng-sam]

Preflop: I limp here in level 2. You may "take it down right there" but the risk reward ratio is out of whack.

On the flop: Here I only make continuation-esque bets when I have a monster with no draws on the board ( I actually find it superior to check raising). Here you absolutely must check/fold or bet the pot to push out the draws. If you get reraised big here you must consider that you likely got out flopped. Even with Villan acting agro,there's too many chips at stake to be stupid. Is it possible that villan limp/called with J10 or 9 10 if so you are beat on the turn regardless. If he flopped the nut straight you will find out with a pot sized bet.

On the turn: I check too.

On the river: since you both checked the turn...did he check his made straight? perhaps but all in on the river is not a good way to get paid so I'm thinking he has KJ or QJ or at worst AJ. Last are you willing to risk it all with TPTK here. For me it depends on the buy in now. 10+1 I call in a heartbeat. Probably 20+2 also.. Above that I likely fold.

SAM
who is working on his game and wants to know if the above makes you "very sad"

[Jonathan]

[ QUOTE ]
Here is how I play it, which is not necessarily the best or even a correct way to play it at the 22's:

Limp preflop. Bet ~200 on the flop. Check the turn. Call that river.

[/ QUOTE ]

What makes you and lastchance think that this was a 22?
It was a 33. Not that there is all that much difference.

Suerte,
Jonathan

[lastchance]

Just a guess. Meh, t800 chips. Player posting... Meh, $22's seemed like a good guess, and adanthar just copied what I said I suppose.

I like adanthar's line a bit. Given your read, I call the river too.

[Jonathan]

[ QUOTE ]
Here is how I play it, which is not necessarily the best or even a correct way to play it at the 22's:

Limp preflop. Bet ~200 on the flop. Check the turn. Call that river.

[/ QUOTE ]

So the way you would play it, by limping, I would end up
having to make the same decision for all my chips on the
river, but with one crucial difference- I let the small blind
and big blind in the hand to possibly out flop me. Wouldn't
it be better to play AJo against one opponent rather than 3?

Perhaps I should have called the river bet. Knowing this players
tendencies, I later regretted my fold. But if I am planning
on calling the river for all my chips, then wouldn't it be
better to go all-in myslef on the turn?

Suerte,
Jonathan

[lastchance]

Because getting called and missing sucks. Because SB and BB are paying you off if you flop 2 pair or better. Because you've only got t800 behind, and raising to t120 is 1/8th of your stack.

[Chaostracize]

I can see an argument for not raising but I can't see one for not playing at all.